|
|
Steven Mock - Message # 7
Kol Nidre debate with Salvador Astucia - Full Text
Path:
g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: s...@nizkor.org
Newsgroups:
alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.revisionism,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.iraq,soc.culture.palestine
Subject: Re: Be Patient Hate Mongers
Date: 23 Aug 2005 02:42:05 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <1124790125.228266.30950@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1124553129.617897.174470@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
<1124554586.897662.148520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
<1124558520.542169.47620@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
<1124558946.586474.227660@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
<1124582983.141754.269250@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
<1124585129.751514.192590@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
<1124597775.987404.221790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
<1124619029.420669.208640@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
<1124623511.032636.79750@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
<1124624551.929775.260040@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
<1124639842.833915.34780@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
<1124647222.717838.317370@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
<1124679336.388294.280560@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
<1124703867.961578.207940@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
<1124769408.833982.87770@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.86.148.140
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1124790130 32583 127.0.0.1 (23 Aug 2005 09:42:10
GMT)
X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 09:42:10 +0000 (UTC)
In-Reply-To: <1124769408.833982.87770@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/0.2
Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com
Injection-Info: z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com; posting-host=128.86.148.140;
posting-account=SlEiXQwAAAA_q_nn_YVHTcwoSagY7JB4
I don't understand what you're getting at Mr. Astucia. Your last few
posts have consisted of nothing more that mass quantities of reposted
material from previous posts, followed by incontinent rants declaring
yourself right and attacking my character and motives. I can't tell
whether you are intentionally trying to spam this discussion out of
existence, or whether you have simply come unglued in the face of your
obvious failure to prove even the smallest part of your Kol Nidre
conspiracy theory.
But if you are serious about discussing the matter, I suggest you
address my points, all of which have been abundantly supported in the
preceding discussion (in the interests of clarity and bandwidth, I
shall not repost that support again, but would be happy to draw your
attention to it if you deem it necessary):
1) that Jews are taught that Kol Nidre does not permit them to engage
in deception, and that other laws and prohibitions make that clear
(something that your Jewish Encyclopedia substantiates far better than
I did), 2) it was only one branch of Judaism that reintroduced the
prayer (and the one least likely to think that such a divine
dispensation would even be necessary and effective) and 3) this was
done in the context of a decade-long process of reintroducing hundreds
of previously discontinued practices further to an overall reassessment
of this movement's relationship to the tradition.
Your notion that "Judaism" reintroduced the Kol Nidre in 1945 in order
to authorise Jews to lie about the Holocaust falls flat in light of
these facts.
The attentive reader will note that you *still* have not explained how
you or any one else goes from Nedarim 23 - which basically states that
a formula recited one a year, of which I'm sure the Kol Nidre serves
perfectly well, prevents a coffee appointment from having the force of
a divinely sanctioned vow - to the conclusion that the same prayer
gives Jews blanket license to engage in deception of any kind,
regardless of
whatever other prohibitions against bearing false witness there might
be in Jewish law. Indeed, your discourse in the last post simply takes
this connection for granted, proving my point that grand
generalisations and prejudiced interpretations are the bedrock on which
your entire theory rests.
Rather than cutting and pasting large chuncks of previous posts in the
hopes that sheer volume will be taken for an argument, I would like to
see if you're capable of even trying to explain this.
Steven Mock
|
|