Exhibit Q: Phone Conversations between DC Dave & Salvador, Monday, Aug. 19, 2002

by Salvador Astucia, November 24, 2002

Background

Around the week of August 12, 2002, I began receiving emails from Hugh Turley stating that he did not believe my hypothesis (from my book, Opium Lords) that Israel sponsored Vince Foster’s murder in order to thwart the Oslo Accords, but he did not give any reasons for holding such an opinion.

I discussed the matter with my former friend Gary Martin (aka, DC Dave; aka, David Martin) because I suspected Turley might have a hidden agenda, or be a "spook" of sorts.

Martin assured me that Turley was not a spook and suggested that Turley and I settle our difference with a public debate on Usenet. I advised Martin that such a debate would certainly embarrass Turley because Turley knew nothing of the Oslo Accords and would therefore look foolish if I went public with the matter. Martin assured me that everything would work out for the best.

Consequently, on Thursday, August 15, 2002, I publicly challenged Hugh Turley to debate the Oslo Accords as the motive for Vince Foster’s murder.

I created a webpage issuing the challenge, and I announced the challenge on about 50 Usenet newsgroups. The webpage contained Turley’s most recent email where he challenged the Foster-Oslo hypothesis.

Turley became livid upon learning of the challenge. He sent me emails demanding that I take the webpage down. I refused, but I agreed to virtually all of his remaining demands which included omitting certain passages from his email containing his "private thoughts." That seemed to calm him down, but he did not engage in the debate. He essentially ignored the challenge.

I waited twenty-four hours for Turley to respond, then I reciprocated his criticisms of my research by asking questions about his.

On Friday, August, 16, 2002, I publicly asked Turley the following questions about Patrick Knowlton and Accuracy in Media (AIM):

-----

[1] A reliable source advised me that you (Turley) first met Patrick Knowlton when he was Chief of Security at the Saudi Arabian embassy in Washington, DC.

Is that correct?

[2] What year did you first meet Mr. Knowlton?

[3] Did Mr. Knowlton have a registered firearm when he worked at the Saudi Arabian embassy?

(As Chief of Security at the Saudi Arabian embassy, it seems reasonable that Knowlton would carry a firearm.)

[4] Was Mr. Knowlton carrying a registered or unregistered firearm with him when he was at Fort Marcy Park on July 20, 1993, the day Vince Foster was killed?

[5] To your knowledge, has Mr. Knowlton ever been considered a suspect in the murder of Vince Foster?

Have any independent researchers or crime investigators ever considered the former Chief of Security at the Saudi Arabian embassy a murder suspect?

[6] On your website, you indicate that Mr. Knowlton has a girlfriend named Kathryn who witnessed governmental harassment against Mr. Knowlton while they walked the streets of Washington, DC.

In a previous conversation, you advised me that Kathryn is Jewish. Do you acknowledge this fact? (That she is Jewish.)

[7] If my assertion that Jewish fanatics sponsored Foster’s murder to thwart the Oslo Accords, wouldn’t this undercut the reliability of Mr. Knowlton’s testimony, given that his girlfriend is Jewish? After all, the motive—as I described—involves the Jewish State.

[8] Your website indicates that the lawyer who handled Mr. Knowlton’s case was John Clarke.

A reliable source advised me that Mr. Clarke’s services were paid by Accuracy in Media. Is this correct?

[9] Are you aware that many people believe Accuracy in Media is a front for the Mossad?

Have you ever heard that?

What are your feelings about Israel's Mossad (a spy agency) possibly sponsoring Knowlton's law suit against the US government?

-----[end of questions]----

The questions I asked Turley had bothered me for quite some time. In fact, Gary Martin (aka, DC Dave; aka, David Martin) had told me several times in private discussions that some of these issues had bothered him as well. But I was about to learn that Martin’s public statements about the Foster case were dramatically different from his private concerns about many of the players involved.

Martin had been a good friend for nine years (from 1993 through 2002), or so I thought. I met Martin through political circumstances. He contacted me after reading a Washington Times article written about me regarding my interest in the Kennedy assassination.

At first I did not trust him. I thought he might be with the FBI, CIA, or some agency like that. I suspected he might want to keep tabs on me. But over the years he won my trust, mainly through his intellect.

My decision to publicly ask Hugh Turley the stated nine questions about Patrick Knowlton and Accuracy in Media would end my friendship with Gary Martin forever and force him to reveal his true agenda. In a word, Gary Martin blew his cover over nine questions I asked Hugh Turley in a public debate about the Foster case on August 16, 2002.

The Phone Call

On Monday morning, August 19, 2002, I received an angry phone call from Gary Martin (aka, DC Dave; aka, David Martin). Here is my recollection of the exchange; however, the conversation was not recorded, and therefore it is not an exact transcription:

[Aug. 19, 2002: My work phone rings at about 9:30 am. I answer.]

Salvador:

Hello.

Martin:

Have you taken leave of your senses? Have you lost your fucking mind? I go away for the weekend, when I come back, I hear about that webpage of yours! You’re getting into all sorts of things you don’t understand! Get it down! GET IT DOWN! Nothing good will come from this. GET IT DOWN!

Salvador:

What’s wrong? Why are you so upset?

Martin:

GET THAT FUCKING THING DOWN! GET IT DOWN!

Salvador:

What?

Martin:

GET THAT FUCKING THING DOWN! GET IT DOWN!

Salvador:

Gary, I don’t understand why you’re so upset. Actually, I thought you might be relieved that I’m publicly asking questions about Patrick Knowlton that have bothered you for quite some time.

Martin:

They’re gonna know that I gave you the information.

Salvador:

What difference does it make? I’m giving you an out. You’ve told me several times that you were bothered by some of the points I raised. Since you’re friends with Turley, I thought it might be difficult for you to confront him directly, so I’m doing it for you.

Have you read the questions I asked?

Martin:

No, I haven’t.

Salvador:

You haven’t even read it? How come you’re so upset about something you haven’t even read? This isn’t like you. You’re always telling people to check the facts before jumping to conclusions.

Why are you so emotional about these questions?

I’ve never known you to criticize an article or book without first reading it.

Martin:

Okay, let me pull it up.

Salvador:

Do you want to read it, then call me back?

Martin:

No, I’ll read it now. (pause)

Okay, I’m on the page. (pause)

Not too bad so far.

Salvador:

Have you come to the questions yet?

Martin:

I’m just getting to them. (pause)

They’re definitely jaw droppers. (pause)

CHIEF of Security at the Saudi Arabian embassy? (quoting Question # 1)

Salvador:

Didn’t you say that?

Martin:

CHIEF of Security?

Salvador:

Didn’t Knowlton work at the Saudi Arabian embassy?

Martin:

But CHIEF? ---

(Martin uses an extremely whiny inflection on the word "chief," although he does not deny it.)

Salvador:

If it’s not true, Turley can just state that it’s not true. What’s the big deal?

Martin:

You made an accusation.

Salvador:

No I didn’t. I just asked a question. Why can’t Turley answer it?

Martin:

Look, you said before I was emotional. I’m not being emotional now. But you don’t know the kind of trouble you’re creating by having that page up. Now please take it down.

Salvador:

What kind of trouble? I don’t understand.

Martin:

Take my word for it, nothing good will come of this. NOTHING!

Salvador:

All I did was ask Turley some questions about Patrick Knowlton because he [Turley] refused to participate in a public debate after he privately challenged my research about Foster and Oslo Accords.

You were the one who suggested having a public debate, remember?

I told you Turley would look like a fool because he doesn’t know anything about the Oslo Accords. Yet he tells me my theory is wrong.

Martin:

Turley just disagrees with you, that’s all. It’s a free country. He has the right to disagree with you. Now take it down. I’m asking you, Please take it down?

Salvador:

As a citizen of the United States, Turley has a Constitutional right to disagree with me. Yes, he has a LEGAL right to disagree. But regardless of that, it’s unethical for him to disagree because he doesn’t explain why. He just says I disagree because I disagree. I’m sorry, but that’s not good enough. It’s intellectually dishonest.

Martin:

What are you trying to prove? (really whining)

What do you hope to accomplish by doing this?

Salvador:

What do any of us hope to accomplish by anything we write?

What did I hope to accomplish by writing Opium Lords?

What did you hope to accomplish by writing about Vince Foster?

What did Carol [Valentine] hope to accomplish by writing about Waco and 9-11?

We’re just trying to get the truth about important issues.

Why would you ask such a question?

Martin:

Nothing good will come from this.

Salvador:

Why do you keep saying that? Why are you so concerned about the questions I asked Turley?

Martin:

Because everyone will know you got the information from ME!

Salvador:

Are you saying that you’re afraid something might happen to you because of the questions I asked?

If that’s what you’re saying, then that’s a good reason.

Is that what you’re saying?

Martin:

No, no. That’s not what I’m saying.

Salvador:

Then what are you saying? Why do you want me to take it down?

Martin:

What do you hope to accomplish? Nothing good will come from this.

Salvador:

Well Gary, we’re not getting anywhere. You’re just repeating yourself. You’re obviously upset, but I don’t know why. I’ll think about your concern, but you haven’t given me a good reason to take the page down.

I’ve got to get some work done now.

Martin:

Okay, just think about it.

Salvador:

I’ll talk to you later. Bye.

I hang up and notice the message light on my work phone is on, indicating that someone left a message while I was talking to Gary Martin. I listen to the message and am shocked to hear it is from Patrick Knowlton.

The following is a transcription of Knowlton’s recorded message:

------quote on----------

Yeah, [Salvador Astucia], this is Patrick Knowlton calling. And I have some issues I’d like to discuss with you at your earliest convenience. And I’m gonna call your home phone right now and see what we can work out. I’ve never met you sir, as far as I know. I don’t know why you would trash me or attempt to trash me or smear my name, AGAIN, which has been done several times. So you and I have some issues and I’m gonna talk to you about ‘em, or I’ll come and visit you personally. But I want to resolve this. And if you and Carol Valentine or whoever else has a bone to pick with me, you’d better do it to my face. Bye.

-------quote off---------

(Transcription of Patrick Knowlton’s voice message, August 19, 2002. *)

I know Martin gave Knowlton the number because few people know my work number, particularly people with political interests.

I call Martin back to confront him about his obvious betrayal.

Martin:

Hello.

Salvador:

It’s me again. I just got a voice message from Patrick Knowlton while we were talking.

Did you give him my work number?

Martin:

I gave it to Turley.

Salvador:

Why would you give it to Turley?

Martin:

Because he asked me for it.

Salvador:

That’s it? Because he asked you for it? That’s not a reason.

Turley is obviously upset with me and you had no business giving him my work number.

He obviously gave it to Knowlton.

Martin:

That’s what you get for raising these kinds of issues publicly.

Salvador:

But Knowlton might be a HIT MAN. You said so yourself. He might be the guy who killed Vince Foster. You agreed that it’s a possibility, remember? You gave my work number to a HIT MAN. At least he might be a hit man.

Martin:

I didn’t give your number to Knowlton, I gave it to Turley.

Salvador:

But it’s the same thing. Turley is friends with Knowlton. You must have known that if you would give my work number to Turley, he might give it to Knowlton.

Martin:

You should have thought of that before you made public accusations.

Salvador:

I just asked questions, I didn’t make accusations.

Martin:

Everyone knows what you meant.

Salvador:

You don’t seem to understand. You gave my work number to someone who is upset with me about something I wrote on the Internet. How would you like it if I gave your work number to an FBI agent?

Martin:

The FBI already has my work number. So does Reed Irvine.

(His voice is very calm as he makes these two statements.)

Salvador:

Gary, I get the impression there’s something more going on here. Is there something you need to tell me?

Martin:

Yeah, there is. (pause)

YOU’RE CRAZY !! (extremely nasty tone)

Salvador:

I’m crazy?

Martin:

Yeah, YOU’RE CRAZY !!

Salvador:

Do you think Carol [Valentine] is crazy too?

Martin:

(laughing) Well, yes. Sometimes Carol exercises poor judgment.

Salvador:

So you think Carol and I are both crazy?

Martin:

She lacks discretion and so do you.

"I HEREBY challenge you to a debate." (mocking the manner in which I challenged Turley to the debate in question)

Salvador:

Sorry, I didn’t know there was a special etiquette for issuing such challenges to public debates. I’ve never done it before. But the debate was your idea, and I told you it wouldn’t work.

Martin:

But "I HEREBY challenge you to a debate." That’s a ridiculous way to do it. Hereby.

Salvador:

Well that’s the way I did it.

I still don’t see how you could give my WORK phone number to Turley and Knowlton.

Martin:

I gave it to Turley because he asked for it.

Salvador:

But that’s not a reason.

Martin:

He asked for it, so I gave it to him.

(At this point, it’s obvious to me that Martin is an agent/spook of some sort and his mission is to keep tabs on me. I become concerned about the welfare of my family.)

Salvador:

Look, promise me you won’t hurt my mother.

Martin:

I don’t know where you mother lives.

Salvador:

You must have forgotten. We discussed it before.

Martin:

(laughing) Yes, that’s right. I do know where she lives.

Salvador:

Don’t hurt my mother. I’ve gotta go now. Bye.

I hang up and think about the situation a bit. After a few minutes I decide to do what Martin wants and take the webpage down. I am fearful they will try to get me fired from my job or take their anger out on my mother and other family members.

I call Martin and advise him that I will take the page down when I get home tonight.

Here is the phone conversation.

Martin:

Hello.

Salvador:

It’s me again. Look, tell Turley and Knowlton that I’ll take the page down tonight when I get home from work. I can’t do it before then because I don’t have access to my web tools.

Martin:

Okay, I’ll tell them.

Salvador:

And I want YOU to understand that the only reason I’m doing this is because you gave them my work phone number.

Martin:

I don’t want you to feel coerced.

Salvador:

What do you mean by that? You gave them my work phone number. You yourself agreed that Patrick Knowlton might be the guy who killed Foster! He’s a hit man! At least there’s a good chance he is. And you gave him my work phone number. What do you mean Don’t feel coerced?

Martin:

Well---

Salvador:

Anyway, I just want YOU to know that. I'll take the page down tonight. Bye.

Afterwards, I change my mind and decide to keep the webpage up.

The rest, as they say, is history.

The next day, I email Gary Martin and advise him never to call me at work or home again, otherwise, I will call the police.

As a postscript, about six weeks later, I phoned Gary Martin at home and communicated to him in no uncertain terms (but non-threatening in legal terms) what would happen if any mysterious misfortune should befall my mother or other family members. I am told he was extremely shaken by my phone call.

[END]

* Patrick Knowlton left two recorded phone messages for me on August 19, 2002: one at my work phone number and one at my home number. The transcription of Knowlton’s message presented above was taken from the message he left on my voicemail service at home. It is an exact transcription, not written from memory. I deleted the message he left at work without transcribing it, but to the best of my recollection, the two messages were identical.