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Communiqué # 47: From DC Dave to Forum, September 17, 2002

Synopsis: DC Dave is upset because Salvador called him a liar on a different forum. (alt.thebird) The incident dealt with DC Dave's relationship with Reed Irvine.

From: "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>
To: sfarney2@erols.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net,
dcdave1@erols.com, salvador_astucia@yahoo.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com,
skywriter@erols.com, skywriter@public-action.com, Turley@acninc.net
CC: jerry@regena.com
Bcc:
Subject: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:20:40 +0000

"[14] What is the nature of DC Dave's the relationship (sic)
between Reed Irvine (Chairman of Accuracy in Media)."

"NOTE: DC Dave answered this question, but he lied. He
indicated that he barely knows Irvine. He has told the
moderator in numerous private discussions (since 1993)
that he knows Irvine."

It is very difficult to deal with vermin on the order of this "Savior
Astuteness." How blithely the scurrilous charge of "liar" trips off
his keyboard! I feel, at this point, that I am soiling myself by having
anything at all to do with him, but he would treat a failure to respond
as an admission that his slander is correct.

The "liar" charge emerges from a correspondence I had with Jerry
Russell in which I tried to give him as precise a description of
my relationship with Mr. Irvine as I was able to muster. I told
Mr. Russell that I had spent a good deal more time talking with
Foster-case journalists Christopher Ruddy and Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
than I had Reed Irvine. I noted that virtually all my personal
dealings with Accuracy in Media had been with their late director
of communications, Bernard Yoh. Yoh, I told him, was a charming
and interesting guy, but I tried to be careful never to tell him
anything that I would not have wanted broadcast over at CIA
headquarters.

Further narrative related to Yoh and me can be found in Part 5
of my "America's Dreyfus Affair." By contrast, my dealings with
Mr. Irvine have been distant and proper. It was in that context
that I told Jerry Russell that I "barely knew" Reed Irvine, which
is something quite different from "lying" and saying that I did
not know Reed Irvine at all.

The larger context is the one created by Mr. "Astuteness." That is the
suggestion that I am a paid agent of Mr. Irvine's, deviously spying on
conscientious truth seekers for the benefit of whoever Mr. "Astuteness"
insinuates Mr. Irvine's ultimate paymasters might be, most likely Ariel
Sharon's boys. That, Mr. "Astuteness," is the big, bald, ugly lie.
And it will not do for Carol Valentine or anyone else to defend this
thinly-veiled public charge by saying that "Astuteness" is only asking
questions based upon what looks like good circumstantial evidence to
their seriously disturbed minds. I have said that it is not true. Reed
Irvine has said that it is not true. (He said that I have not received
a penny from AIM. For some reason that is not a strong enough denial
for "Astuteness" and he insists that Irvine go back and check his
records, giving Irvine my social security number that he has somehow
obtained.) And yet "Astuteness" keeps coming back with his "question,"
making it quite clear that, like so many of his public "questions," it
is not really a question at all, but a rotten, slanderous, breathtakingly
irresponsible CHARGE.

I don't know how I can make it any clearer that the insinuation is a
lie. May he or anyone else who makes such an insinuation ever again burn
in hell for it!

[Snipped redundant email.]

----

DC Dave (David Martin)
Author of "Upton Sinclair and Timothy McVeigh," "America's Dreyfus
Affair, the Case of the Death of Vincent Foster," and the "Seventeen
Techniques for Truth Suppression." For those and collected writings
go to http://thebird.org/host/dcdave.

From David Martin Tue Sep 17 07:20:40 2002
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From: "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>
To: sfarney2@erols.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net,
dcdave1@erols.com, salvador_astucia@yahoo.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com,
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Subject: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
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Communiqué # 48: From Salvador to DC Dave, September 17, 2002

Synopsis: Salvador apologizes to DC Dave about an incident in which Salvador misinterpreted something Reed Irvine stated about his relationship with DC Dave.

Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:27:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
To: "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>, sfarney2@erols.com,
chetlyle@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net, dcdave1@erols.com,
sfarney@bigfoot.com, skywriter@erols.com, skywriter@public-action.com,
Turley@acninc.net
CC: jerry@regena.com

DC Dave,

I went back and read Reed Irvine's email again and
must admit that you are correct. He did in fact state
that AIM never paid you anything.

Please accept my apology for the mistake.

In his email to me, dated August 29, 2000, Reed Irvine
wrote the following:

"Martin has never been paid a cent."

Again, I apologize for missing that statement;
however, it was one small sentence buried in a sea of
accusations of anti-Semitism and two significant
disclosures that (a) Hugh Turley received about $1,600
from AIM for giving several lectures, and (b), AIM
contributed to Patrick Knowlton’s legal expense fund.

In the future, I request that you, Hugh Turley, and
anyone else point out such mistakes on my part in a
civilized tone, rather than raising the emotional
volume of the debate.

This particular incident could have been easily
resolved if someone had simply stated, "Salvador,
please look at Mr. Irvine’s email again. He made a
statement near the end which says 'Martin has never
been paid a cent.' "

Of course I assume full responsibility for missing Mr.
Irvine’s statement, but a polite correction would have
eliminated a lot of confusion.

Please be advised that the corrections will be made to
the discussion forum (and to alt.thebird) to indicate
that Reed Irvine did in fact state that AIM never paid
you any money.

Salvador

[Omitted redundant emails.]

Salvador Astucia, author of "Opium Lords" (416 pages), the book that
solved the JFK murder.

* View online at http://www.jfkmontreal.com

* or purchase book for $29 in USA, $34 worldwide (includes shipping).
See ordering info. at http://www.jfkmontreal.com/order_hardcopy.htm

From Salvador Astucia Tue Sep 17 08:27:52 2002
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:27:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
To: "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>, sfarney2@erols.com,
chetlyle@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net, dcdave1@erols.com,
sfarney@bigfoot.com, skywriter@erols.com, skywriter@public-action.com,
Turley@acninc.net
CC: jerry@regena.com
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Communiqué # 49: From DC Dave to Salvador & Forum, September 17, 2002

Synopsis: DC Dave accepts Salvador's apology but insists on further statements of contrition.

Communiqué # 50: From Slade Farney to DC Dave, September 17, 2002

Synopsis: Slade observes DC Dave's friendship with CIA chap, the late Bernie Yoh. He thinks this looks suspicious.

To: "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>, sfarney2@erols.com,
chetlyle@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net, dcdave1@erols.com,
salvador_astucia@yahoo.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com, skywriter@erols.com, skywriter@public-action.com, Turley@acninc.net, jerry@regena.com
Subject: Re: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
From: sfarney@web2mail.com
CC:
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:49:39 +0000 (GMT)

--------------------------------------------------
Here is a message for you from http://web2mail.com
The easy way to read and send POP email on the web
--------------------------------------------------

David Martin <dcdave1@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "[14] What is the nature of DC Dave's the relationship (sic)
> between Reed Irvine (Chairman of Accuracy in Media)."
>
> "NOTE: DC Dave answered this question, but he lied. He
> indicated that he barely knows Irvine. He has told the
> moderator in numerous private discussions (since 1993)
> that he knows Irvine."
>
> It is very difficult to deal with vermin on the order of this
> "Savior Astuteness." How blithely the scurrilous charge of
> "liar" trips off his keyboard! I feel, at this point, that
> I am soiling myself by having anything at all to do with him,
> but he would treat a failure to respond as an admission that
> his slander is correct.
>
> The "liar" charge emerges from a correspondence I had with
> Jerry Russell in which I tried to give him as precise a
> description of my relationship with Mr. Irvine as I was able
> to muster. I told Mr. Russell that I had spent a good deal
> more time talking with Foster-case journalists Christopher
> Ruddy and Ambrose Evans-Pritchard than I had Reed Irvine.
> I noted that virtually all my personal dealings with Accuracy
> in Media had been with their late director of communications,
> Bernard Yoh. Yoh, I told him, was a charming and interesting
> guy, but I tried to be careful never to tell him anything
> that I would not have wanted broadcast over at CIA headquarters.
> ...

That last statement shines like a murder weapon in the moonlight.

So the communications director for AIM (you know or suspect) was cozy
(or in the pay of) the American Central Intelligence Agency. Are you
saying that AIM is a CIA sock-puppet? Would it be fair to conclude
that the Knowlton legal case is a CIA project?

For my money, this is very interesting. I can't prove Knowlton did
(or did not) see Foster's car in the parking lot (but I believe him:
he did not). And I can't prove Knowlton has (or does not have) a
bladder problem that obligates him to the disgusting habit of peeing
in urban parks at midday (though I DISbelieve him: he does not).

But the suggestion that AIM is a CIA project now used for funding
Knowlton's legal case throws a whole new shaft of moonlight on the
subject.

Why would the CIA be funding a Foster suicide investigation through
a sock-puppet?

Is the CIA interested in Just The Truth?

Do they want the facts known without sullying the truth with their
disgusting reputation?

Are they engaged in their same old dirty tricks, plotting against the
crown through puppet organizations, just as secret police have done in
every country where secret police have been used?

Does Irvine know about Yoh's background? Do you think the news would
be a surprise, or a primary qualifier for the job as comm. director for
AIM?

Did/does Knowlton work at the CIA, too? Just wondering.

--Slade

From sfarney@web2mail.com Tue Sep 17 10:49:39 2002
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To: "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>, sfarney2@erols.com,
chetlyle@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net, dcdave1@erols.com,
salvador_astucia@yahoo.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com, skywriter@erols.com, skywriter@public-action.com, Turley@acninc.net, jerry@regena.com
Subject: Re: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
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Communiqué # 51: From Salvador to DC Dave, September 17, 2002

Synopsis: Salvador politely declines to issue additional apologies to DC Dave. Salvador reminds DC Dave that Reed Irvine did not explain his relationship with DC Dave. He only stated that AIM never paid DC Dave. Salvador adds that there are several ways of doing favors without actually exchanging money.

Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:24:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
To: "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>, sfarney2@erols.com,
chetlyle@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net,
dcdave1@erols.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com, skywriter@erols.com,
skywriter@public-action.com, Turley@acninc.net
CC: jerry@regena.com

DC Dave wrote:

> ... apology is accepted.
>
> However, I can find in this response no apology for
> the malicious charge, offered in the familiar
> UNcivilized tone of the esteemed moderator, that I
> "lied" about my degree of acquaintance with Reed
> Irvine. Neither do I see the most important overdue
> apology of all, the one for the scurrilous and
> wholly unfounded insinuation that I am a devious
> agent of spies on well-intentioned citizens.

You gave misleading answers about your relationship
with Reed Irvine, claiming that you only worked with
him on the Cliff Baxter case. We both know your
relationship with him goes back further than that.

Also, I never accused you of being an "agent," devious
or otherwise. I suggested that you are something of a
professional lobbyist who sells his services to the
highest bidder.

Speaking of highest bidder, you and Reed Irvine made a
point of stating that AIM never paid you money;
however, payment can be made in many ways other than
direct business transactions. If you are in fact a
Washington, DC lobbyist, a man like Reed Irvine could
open many doors for you which could ultimately result
in a fair amount of money coming your way, but without
AIM's or Irvine's fingerprints directly on it. This is
why I asked Mr. Irvine and you to explain your
relationship. I never asked him to disclose whether or
not he paid you money, or what the amount was. In that
sense, his email was completely non-responsive to my
question.

To refresh your memory, here is the email I sent to
Reed Irvine on August 29, 2002 requesting that he
explain his relationship with you. It was quite
specific.

-------quote on------------
From: Salvador Astucia
[mailto:salvador_astucia@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 1:47 AM
To: ar1@aim.org
Subject: Question for Reed Irvine

Reed Irvine, Chairman
Accuracy in Media
4455 Connecticut Avenue, N.W.
Suite #330
Washington, D.C. 20008
(202)364-4401 ext. 110

Dear Mr. Irvine:

I am facilitating a discussion forum in which your
name has come up.

What is your relationship with the following
individual?

[...] David Martin, Ph.D.
[address omitted]

Occupation: Economist
Employer: [...]

Home phone: [...]
Work phone: [...]

Mr. Martin has told me that he knows you, that you
have his phone number at work, and so does the FBI.

Mr. Martin also claims that he was friends with your
deceased colleague and co-founder of AIM, Bernard Yoh.

Here is the URL for the previously mentioned
discussion:
http://www.jfkmontreal.com/foster_discussion.htm

Again, please describe the nature of your relationship
with Mr. Martin.

Be advised that this communiqué has been made public
as will any response I might receive from you.

Regards,

Salvador Astucia

------quote off--------

End of message --- Salvador

=====
Salvador Astucia, author of "Opium Lords" (416 pages), the book that
solved the JFK murder.

* View online at http://www.jfkmontreal.com

* or purchase book for $29 in USA, $34 worldwide (includes shipping).
See ordering info. at http://www.jfkmontreal.com/order_hardcopy.htm

From Salvador Astucia Tue Sep 17 11:24:16 2002
Received: from [198.186.43.225] by web14911.mail.yahoo.com
via HTTP; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:24:16 PDT
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:24:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
To: "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>, sfarney2@erols.com,
chetlyle@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net,
dcdave1@erols.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com, skywriter@erols.com,
skywriter@public-action.com, Turley@acninc.net
CC: jerry@regena.com
In-Reply-To: <F2337cyHvv9QQLdvlXt0000ad78@hotmail.com>
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Communiqué # 52: From Salvador to Slade Farney, September 17, 2002

Synopsis: Salvador remarks that it was DC Dave who suggested the pseudonym AstuCIA. (Note the last three letters.) He wonders if there is a cryptic meaning.

Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:37:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
To: sfarney@web2mail.com, "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>,
sfarney2@erols.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net,
dcdave1@erols.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com, skywriter@erols.com,
skywriter@public-action.com, Turley@acninc.net, jerry@regena.com

Slade,

The Yoh-CIA connection could explain why DC Dave
suggested my pseudonym.

Around July 1999, I told him I wanted to started using
a pseudonym and asked if he had any suggestions. He
immediately said "Salvador! It means 'Saviour.' "

"What about a last name?" I asked.

"Let me think on it. I'll get back with you," he
replied.

The next day he called me and said "Astucia!" which is
Spanish for "Astute" or Astuteness."

It seemed OK so I started using it.

Later I noticed the last three letters of Astucia were
a bit troubling.

That's very telling.

Salvador AstuCIA

[Omitted redundant emails.]

=====
Salvador Astucia, author of "Opium Lords" (416 pages), the book that
solved the JFK murder.

* View online at http://www.jfkmontreal.com

* or purchase book for $29 in USA, $34 worldwide (includes shipping).
See ordering info. at http://www.jfkmontreal.com/order_hardcopy.htm

From Salvador Astucia Tue Sep 17 11:37:10 2002
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via HTTP; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:37:10 PDT
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:37:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
To: sfarney@web2mail.com, "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>,
sfarney2@erols.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net,
dcdave1@erols.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com, skywriter@erols.com,
skywriter@public-action.com, Turley@acninc.net, jerry@regena.com
In-Reply-To: <20020917174939.E859E66791@texas3.legendum.com>
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Communiqué # 53: From DC Dave to Slade Farney, September 17, 2002

Synopsis: DC Dave explains his relationship with AIM, Reed Irvine, Bernie Yoh, Joseph Goulden, Chris Ruddy, and others. He then insults Slade Farney by demanding he reveal his true identity.

From: "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>
To: sfarney@web2mail.com, sfarney2@erols.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com,
JohnHClarke@earthlink.net, dcdave1@erols.com, salvador_astucia@yahoo.com,
sfarney@bigfoot.com, skywriter@erols.com, skywriter@public-action.com,
Turley@acninc.net, jerry@regena.com
Bcc:
Subject: Re: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:54:35 +0000

Wake up and smell the coffee. My cards with respect to AIM have been
out on the table for quite a while. If you search my web site for
Joseph Goulden, or my Dreyfus 5 for Goulden and Yoh you will see what
I mean. You will see that Yoh as much as told me that AIM's #2,
Goulden, was CIA, and Goulden has pretty much confirmed it in his books.

If you search my site for "Scott Runkle" you will see that the Government
of Puerto Rico had a man whom the governor, Luis Munoz Marin, knew was
CIA handling public relations work for him for many years. Welcome to
the real world. That does not mean that everything that Munoz authorized
during his tenure had CIA backing, but it does put things in a different
light than what one gets from the newspapers or the history books.

AIM seems to be something like that. If you read Dan E. Moldea's book,
you will see that Goulden, in contrast to Irvine, was dragging anchor on
the case. The AIM organization seems not to be a monolith. Goulden is
no longer part of AIM and Irvine seems no longer to have the access to
the pages of, say, The Washington Times, that he used to. On the other
hand, Goulden is still touted as one of their speakers and Irvine does
have access to the pages of Chris Ruddy's Newsmax, and that is a real,
certified stinker organization. To confuse matters further, Irvine
has used his access to Newsmax to write some real hardhitting stuff on
the Baxter case, much better than any other journalist in the country
has written.

Hugh Turley and I have wondered why Irvine has pushed so hard on the
Foster case, to the point of providing some financial assistance to the
Knowlton suit and helping Turley reach a wider audience with his
media-exposing message. Turley et al. have chosen not to look that
gift horse too hard in the mouth.

That does not mean that Turley or Patrick Knowlton or John Clarke are
anything different than what they appear to be. I can especially vouch
for Turley because I know him very, very well and I can assure you that
he is nothing more and nothing less than an honest, public-spirited
citizen who is interested in truth and justice. The dark suspicions
of vile, deceitful motives on his part, as on mine, are thoroughly
misguided.

Now I don't know Slade Farney at all. Who is he and what are his
motives, and why does he choose to keep himself hidden? He wouldn't
share a first name in real life with one of the writers of the gospels,
would he?

p.s. I have urinated in Fort Marcy Park in midday, myself. The place
is virtually made for that purpose, that is, for those of us who aren't
all that prissy about such things.

p.p.s. I would certainly have to believe that Reed Irvine is familiar
with what I have written about Yoh, Goulden, etc., which is one good
reason, I should think, why our relationship would be no more than
proper and distant. Even that, I suppose, is too much in the Manichean
view of some.

[Omitted redundant emails.]

----

DC Dave (David Martin)
Author of "Upton Sinclair and Timothy McVeigh," "America's Dreyfus
Affair, the Case of the Death of Vincent Foster," and the "Seventeen
Techniques for Truth Suppression." For those and collected writings go
to http://thebird.org/host/dcdave.

From David Martin Tue Sep 17 11:54:35 2002
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To: sfarney@web2mail.com, sfarney2@erols.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com,
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Subject: Re: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
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Communiqué # 54: From Salvador to David Martin (aka, DC Dave), September 17, 2002

Synopsis: Salvador admonishes DC Dave for bullying Slade Farney about his name. He explains why people use pseudonyms. Salvador warns DC Dave that he will be banned from the forum if he continues to exhibit rude behavior.

Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 12:48:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
To: "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>, sfarney@web2mail.com,
sfarney2@erols.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net,
dcdave1@erols.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com, skywriter@erols.com,
skywriter@public-action.com, Turley@acninc.net, jerry@regena.com

David Martin,

Your comments about your relationship with Irvine,
Goulden, Yoh, and others are more than welcome and
long overdue in this discussion, but you are out of
line to request that people like Slade Farney divulge
their real names.

In many countries, open discussion about the conflict
between Hitler and Jews during World War II (from
1939-1945) can land a person in jail for hate crimes.
People who express such views and live or travel
abroad regularly are at risk of becoming political
prisoners. Many folks within the revisionist community
use pseudonyms for that very reason. In America, using
one’s real name will get a person fired in a heartbeat
if an employer learns of taboo discussions regarding
Hitler and Jews, but at least Americans cannot be
thrown in jail for such an offense.

You more than anyone should appreciate this since you
use two pseudonyms.

You are hereby advised to cease and desist from this
rude behavior.

Consider this a warning.

If you continue, you will be banned from the
discussion forum.

Regards,

Salvador

[Omitted redundant email.]

=====
Salvador Astucia, author of "Opium Lords" (416 pages), the book that
solved the JFK murder.

* View online at http://www.jfkmontreal.com

* or purchase book for $29 in USA, $34 worldwide (includes shipping).
See ordering info. at http://www.jfkmontreal.com/order_hardcopy.htm

From Salvador Astucia Tue Sep 17 12:48:43 2002
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 12:48:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
To: "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>, sfarney@web2mail.com,
sfarney2@erols.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net,
dcdave1@erols.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com, skywriter@erols.com,
skywriter@public-action.com, Turley@acninc.net, jerry@regena.com
In-Reply-To: <F247dsDb7xBNWep4CMx0001d0d9@hotmail.com>
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Communiqué # 55: From Slade Farney to DC Dave, September 17, 2002

Synopsis: Slade compares DC Dave to Mr. McGoo, the near-blind cartoon character. Slade lists several suspicious things about AIM and Knowlton that DC Dave simply cannot see. He wonders why anyone would be interested in the murder/suicide of a nobody lawyer from the Clinton administration when there are bigger issues in our midst.

To: "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>, sfarney@web2mail.com,
sfarney2@erols.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net,
dcdave1@erols.com, salvador_astucia@yahoo.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com,
skywriter@erols.com, skywriter@public-action.com, Turley@acninc.net,
jerry@regena.com
Subject: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
From: sfarney@web2mail.com
CC:
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 20:13:26 +0000 (GMT)

[...]

David Martin <dcdave1@hotmail.com> wrote:
[Omitted most of email. For full view, see Communiqué # 53.]

> Hugh Turley and I have wondered why Irvine has pushed so hard
> on the Foster case, to the point of providing some financial
> assistance to the Knowlton suit and helping Turley reach a
> wider audience with his media-exposing message. Turley et al.
> have chosen not to look that gift horse too hard in the mouth.

A little bit like Mr. McGoo, we must not look too closely at the
following:

1. Why the CIA is supplying staff (and possibly funding) for AIM.
2. Why AIM is funding Knowlton's case.
3. Knowlton's previous employment.
4. How Turley makes his living.
6. Whether we should take Knowlton's word for who he is and why he was
in Ft. Marcy Park (you get called names if you cast shadows of doubt
on that subject).
7. Why anybody is interested in this long-ago murder/suicide of a
principle-challenged lawyer in the Clinton administration about whom
even his wife doesn't care -- amid so much other blood and gore that
spatters the US government both then and now.

Very strange investigation, where we should not ask too many questions.
Rules like that are more in line with a parlor game, or The Hunting of
Snark.

--Slade

From sfarney@web2mail.com Tue Sep 17 13:13:26 2002
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To: "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>, sfarney@web2mail.com,
sfarney2@erols.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net,
dcdave1@erols.com, salvador_astucia@yahoo.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com,
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jerry@regena.com
Subject: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
From: sfarney@web2mail.com
CC:
Reply-to: sfarney@web2mail.com
X-Mailer: Web2Mail 3.0
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Content-Length: 1567

Communiqué # 56: From Salvador to Slade Farney, September 17, 2002

Synopsis: Salvador comments on Slade's musing over the significance of the Foster case. Salvador wonders why Turley and DC Dave were ever interested in the first place. He says their reasons (which were expressed in previous conversations) do not make sense. Salvador acknowledges that he once disliked the Clintons, but now praises them for their attempt to build a just and lasting, genuine peace in the Middle East via the Oslo Accords. He says Foster may have been a martyr in the ongoing quest for world peace.

Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:47:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
To: sfarney@web2mail.com, "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>,
sfarney2@erols.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net,
dcdave1@erols.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com, skywriter@erols.com,
skywriter@public-action.com, Turley@acninc.net, jerry@regena.com

[Slade Farney wrote:]
> 7. Why anybody is interested in this long-ago
> murder/suicide of a principle-challenged lawyer in
> the Clinton administration about whom even his wife
> doesn't care -- amid so much other blood and gore
> that spatters the US government both then and now.

I have wondered that myself.

What I am about to say is not intended to personally
insult or offend David Martin or Hugh Turley, but I
don't know a polite way to say it. So here goes.

I have never understood their interest in the Foster
case.

I am interested in JFK's assassination because I liked
President Kennedy when I was a youth, and I believe he
was a great leader. The more I learned about his
murder, the more I admired his courage---and his
father's as well. Joseph Kennedy Sr was much more
courageous than he is portrayed by historians. So was
Richard Nixon.

I can fully understand why Carol Valentine is
interested in topics like Waco, the Oklahoma City
Bombing, and the 9-11 attacks. She obviously detests
mass-murder of innocent citizens.

And I understand why people like Slade Farney are
interested in uncovering the truth about the period
between 1939 through 1945 commonly known as the
Holocaust. Revealing the truth about that period
teaches us quite a bit about the hidden agenda of
Israel today. It also demonstrates the power that
Jewish political interests have over the worldwide
flow of information.

These are all interesting topics, but why would anyone
care about the murder of a Washington, DC attorney?

I once asked Hugh Turley why he thought Foster was
killed and he gave the following response:

"I think he was stealing money from the mob."

Huh?

Why would Mr. Turley expend so much time and energy
trying to solve the murder of someone who was stealing
from the mob? Using that logic, Foster was essentially
a crook robbing other crooks. Why the moral outrage
over someone like that being killed?

David Martin once expressed an interest in the Foster
case that does not ring true either.

Martin claimed that he and Foster went to the same
university and were about the same age. Although they
never met and did not know one another at all, he felt
a kinship to Foster and was upset by his death.

I'm sorry, but that seems like a peculiar reason to
research the death of a man who was literally more
popular dead than alive.

I only became interested in Foster's death because the
timeline matches the secret Oslo meetings to a tee.
And I stumbled onto this information by accident while
writing Opium Lords.

I was reviewing the Middle Eastern/Israeli policy of
every American President since JFK when I noticed the
timeline of the secret Oslo meetings and Foster's
death.

Could it be that Vince Foster is another martyr in the
cause for world peace.

I used to dislike the Clintons, but investigating the
Oslo connection has raised my opinion of them both
quite a bit.

For all their faults, they tried to do the right thing
in the Middle East. They were trying to set up a just
and lasting, genuine peace.

I cannot fault them for that.

Does anyone care to comment on this?

Salvador

[Omitted redundant email.]

=====
Salvador Astucia, author of "Opium Lords" (416 pages), the book that
solved the JFK murder.

* View online at http://www.jfkmontreal.com

* or purchase book for $29 in USA, $34 worldwide (includes shipping).
See ordering info. at http://www.jfkmontreal.com/order_hardcopy.htm

From Salvador Astucia Tue Sep 17 13:47:58 2002
Received: from [198.186.43.225] by web14901.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:47:58 PDT
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:47:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
To: sfarney@web2mail.com, "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>,
sfarney2@erols.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net,
dcdave1@erols.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com, skywriter@erols.com,
skywriter@public-action.com, Turley@acninc.net, jerry@regena.com
In-Reply-To: <20020917201326.0946C667BB@texas3.legendum.com>
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Content-Length: 3257

Communiqué # 57: [Exhibit A] From Carol Valentine to Salvador, September 17, 2002

Synopsis: Carol recalls several conversations with DC Dave and Hugh Turley about Patrick Knowlton's previous employment as chief of security at the Saudi Arabian Embassy in Washington, DC.

Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 19:55:19 -0400
To: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
From: "Carol A. Valentine" <skywriter@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Knowlton/Saudi Connection

>I wish to direct my next question to Carol Valentine.
>
>Probably the most explosive topic in this debate is
>the issue of Patrick Knowlton's employment at the
>Saudi Arabian embassy in Washington, DC.
>
>I raised the topic of discussion when I asked the
>following question to Hugh Turley on August 16, 2002.
>
>--------
>"[1] A reliable source advised me that you (Turley)
>first met Patrick Knowlton when he was Chief of
>Security at the Saudi Arabian embassy in Washington,
>DC.
>
>Is that correct?"
>--------
>
>The reliable source to whom I referred was Carol
>Valentine.
>
>Neither Hugh Turley or David Martin ever discussed
>Knowlton's employment with me directly. (prior to this
>thread, that is)
>
>Carol Valentine, however, told me that Hugh Turley and
>David Martin had told her--or indicated in some
>manner--that Patrick Knowlton was in fact the chief of
>security at the Saudi Arabian embassy several years
>ago.
>
>After raising this most sensitive question on August
>16th, I received several confusing and angry responses
>from Hugh Turley and David Martin.
>
>To clarify things a bit, I request that Carol
>Valentine publicly give her recollection of
>conversations that transpired over [the] past eight
>years or so between herself, Hugh Turley, and David
>Martin regarding Patrick Knowlton's employment at the
>Saudi Arabian embassy in Washington, DC.
>

Not a problem. I will give you a summary. Realize that I am working
from memory, and did not record or take notes while these
conversations took place, so the accountings cannot be verbatim.

DC Dave first brought up the subject of Knowlton's background in a
phone conversation I had with him many years ago. He said words to
this effect:

===

You know, Turley actually met Knowlton way before the Foster case . .
. Turley was giving a magic show at the Saudi Embassy and Knowlton
was the security chief there.

===

I expressed amazement, of course, and wondered why Knowlton was still
not in security work. What would have caused him to leave that field
and become a construction worker? DC Dave had no answer.

During the ensuing years, DC Dave and I talked from time to time
about Knowlton's background as security chief for the Saudis. We
agreed that Saudi Arabia was one of the US's most important puppet
states, and that it was a testbed for repressive US police state
measures. Again, I expressed puzzlement at Knowlton's career. Why
would Knowlton move from a high paying job like that, working for the
Saudis -- doubtlessly with military/intelligence clearance -- to a
construction worker, and then on to being a tour guide in Washington,
D.C.?

DC Dave agreed with me that Knowlton's career background just did not
add up.

In the last year/year and a half or so, I had a conversation with
Hugh Turley. I asked him how he met Knowlton. He told me the same
story: He was doing a magic show at the Saudi Embassy and Knowlton
was the security man for the Saudis.

By the way, a few days after Salvador started this thread -- I
believe it was on August 19 -- DC Dave called me on the phone to
express his chagrin at Salvador's page. DC suggested that John Clarke
might sue Salvador if he did not take his page down. Then DC said:
"And what about the statement that Knowlton was Security Chief at the
Saudi Embassy?"

I responded: "What about it? That's true, Turley told me himself."

To which DC Dave replied: "Turley? Well, at least I can't be blamed
for telling you."

To which I replied:

"Oh, yes, you can. You were the one who first told me. I simply
confirmed it with Turley. You and I had many conversations over the
years about Knowlton's strange career."

DC Dave fell silent when I said that. He made no comment.

Some more information on the unusual Mr. Knowlton: DC Dave told me
some months ago about a trip Hugh Turley and Patrick Knowlton made to
New York. Hugh was impressed out of his gourd with Patrick,
according to DC Dave. DC Dave said Partick knew his way around all
the best places in New York like nobody's business--and that people
(headwaiters in restaurants, for example) knew Knowlton.

How does a construction worker/public park pisser/tour guide in
Washington DC become a bon vivant known to New York maitre'ds? It
would be wonderful to hear from Mr. Knowlton IN WRITING via e-mail on
this subject.

--
Carol A. Valentine
President, Public Action, Inc.
http://www.Public-Action.com

[Omitted signature line.]

From Carol A. Valentine Tue Sep 17 16:55:19 2002
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 19:55:19 -0400
To: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
From: "Carol A. Valentine" <skywriter@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Knowlton/Saudi Connection
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Communiqué # 58: From DC Dave to Salvador, September 17, 2002

Synopsis: DC Dave complains that Salvador is attempting to depreciate the work that he (DC), Hugh Turley, John Clarke, and Patrick Knowlton have done

From: "David Martin" <dcdave1@erols.com>
To: jerry@regena.com, Turley@acninc.net, skywriter@public-action.com,
skywriter@erols.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net,
chetlyle@bigfoot.com, sfarney2@erols.com, "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>, sfarney@web2mail.com, "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 22:54:58 -0400

You demonstrate only the limitations of your own vision. May I commend
to your attention "Vince Foster's Valuable Murder," for starters at
http://thebird.org/host/dcdave/article3/001126.html which ends:
Speaking of bogus, it is also pure malarkey that Foster was one of
Bill Clinton's "closest childhood friends." Clinton moved away from
Hope to Hot Springs after kindergarten, and that was the end of any
friendship they might have had.. The error here is a small one, and
perhaps in this instance Warner can be forgiven for repeating what
has become a popular myth. But neither she nor the great preponderance
of her journalistic brethren can be forgiven for their active
participation in the cover-up of Vince Foster's quite obvious
murder. And if they would lie to us about this, isn't it a safe bet
that they would also lie to us about such things as the Oklahoma City
bombing, Waco, TWA 800, Egypt Air Flight 999, Pan Am 103, and any
number of political assassinations? That is the real lesson of
Vince Foster's death. (end quote)

Is there no limit to how far you will reach in your petulant attempt
to depreciate the work that Hugh Turley, John Clarke, Patrick Knowlton,
and I have done?

--------
DC Dave
Author, "America's Dreyfus Affair, The Case of the Death of Vincent
Foster"
"Upton Sinclair and Timothy McVeigh"
"Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression"
http://www.thebird.org/host/dcdave
News group: alt.thebird
----- Original Message -----
From: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
To: <sfarney@web2mail.com>; "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>;
<sfarney2@erols.com>; <chetlyle@bigfoot.com>;
<JohnHClarke@earthlink.net>;
<dcdave1@erols.com>; <sfarney@bigfoot.com>; <skywriter@erols.com>;
<skywriter@public-action.com>; <Turley@acninc.net>; <jerry@regena.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum

>
> [Slade Farney wrote:]
> > 7. Why anybody is interested in this long-ago
> > murder/suicide of a principle-challenged lawyer in
> > the Clinton administration about whom even his wife
> > doesn't care -- amid so much other blood and gore
> > that spatters the US government both then and now.
>
> I have wondered that myself.
>
> What I am about to say is not intended to personally
> insult or offend David Martin or Hugh Turley, but I
> don't know a polite way to say it. So here goes.
>
> I have never understood their interest in the Foster
> case.
>
> I am interested in JFK's assassination because I liked
> President Kennedy when I was a youth, and I believe he
> was a great leader. The more I learned about his
> murder, the more I admired his courage---and his
> father's as well. Joseph Kennedy Sr was much more
> courageous than he is portrayed by historians. So was
> Richard Nixon.
>
> I can fully understand why Carol Valentine is
> interested in topics like Waco, the Oklahoma City
> Bombing, and the 9-11 attacks. She obviously detests
> mass-murder of innocent citizens.
>
> And I understand why people like Slade Farney are
> interested in uncovering the truth about the period
> between 1939 through 1945 commonly known as the
> Holocaust. Revealing the truth about that period
> teaches us quite a bit about the hidden agenda of
> Israel today. It also demonstrates the power that
> Jewish political interests have over the worldwide
> flow of information.
>
> These are all interesting topics, but why would anyone
> care about the murder of a Washington, DC attorney?
>
> I once asked Hugh Turley why he thought Foster was
> killed and he gave the following response:
>
> "I think he was stealing money from the mob."
>
> Huh?
>
> Why would Mr. Turley expend so much time and energy
> trying to solve the murder of someone who was stealing
> from the mob? Using that logic, Foster was essentially
> a crook robbing other crooks. Why the moral outrage
> over someone like that being killed?
>
> David Martin once expressed an interest in the Foster
> case that does not ring true either.
>
> Martin claimed that he and Foster went to the same
> university and were about the same age. Although they
> never met and did not know one another at all, he felt
> a kinship to Foster and was upset by his death.
>
> I'm sorry, but that seems like a peculiar reason to
> research the death of a man who was literally more
> popular dead than alive.
>
> I only became interested in Foster's death because the
> timeline matches the secret Oslo meetings to a tee.
> And I stumbled onto this information by accident while
> writing Opium Lords.
>
> I was reviewing the Middle Eastern/Israeli policy of
> every American President since JFK when I noticed the
> timeline of the secret Oslo meetings and Foster's
> death.
>
> Could it be that Vince Foster is another martyr in the
> cause for world peace.
>
> I used to dislike the Clintons, but investigating the
> Oslo connection has raised my opinion of them both
> quite a bit.
>
> For all their faults, they tried to do the right thing
> in the Middle East. They were trying to set up a just
> and lasting, genuine peace.
>
> I cannot fault them for that.
>
> Does anyone care to comment on this?
>
> Salvador
>

[Omitted additional redundant emails.]

From David Martin Tue Sep 17 19:54:58 2002
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From: "David Martin" <dcdave1@erols.com>
To: jerry@regena.com, Turley@acninc.net, skywriter@public-action.com,
skywriter@erols.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net,
chetlyle@bigfoot.com, sfarney2@erols.com, "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>, sfarney@web2mail.com, "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
References: <20020917204758.49529.qmail@web14901.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 22:54:58 -0400
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Communiqué # 59: From Salvador to Forum, September 17, 2002

Synopsis: Salvador sends Carol Valentine's testimony about Knowlton/Saudi connection (Exhibit A) to Forum participants. Salvador instructs participants to focus on that topic. He states that he will only post messages about the Knowlton/Saudi connection on September 18, 2002. (next day)

Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 21:38:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: Knowlton/Saudi Connection
To: dcdave1@hotmail.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com,
JohnHClarke@earthlink.net, chetlyle@bigfoot.com,
sfarney2@erols.com, sfarney@web2mail.com, dcdave1@erols.com,
Turley@acninc.net, jerry@regena.com, skywriter@public-action.com,
skywriter@erols.com

Forum Participants,

I would like to focus on this particular issue for a
bit.

A lot of confusion has arisen over the Knowlton/Saudi
connection, so I would like to set the record straight
if that is possible.

Tomorrow, September 18th, I will only post messages
about the Knowlton/Saudi connection.

John Clarke: You may want to issue a statement from
Patrick Knowlton at this point.

Regards,

Salvador (moderator)

[Carol Valentine's testimony describing conversations
with Foster researchers David Martin (DC Dave) and
Hugh Turley on the topic of Patrick Knowlton's
employment at the Saudi Arabian Embassy are marked
as Exhibit A.]

[Salvador presents Exhibit A to forum participants
as part of email message.]

From Salvador Astucia Tue Sep 17 21:38:23 2002
Received: from [152.163.188.71] by web14902.mail.yahoo.com
via HTTP; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 21:38:23 PDT
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 21:38:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: Knowlton/Saudi Connection
To: dcdave1@hotmail.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com,
JohnHClarke@earthlink.net, chetlyle@bigfoot.com,
sfarney2@erols.com, sfarney@web2mail.com, dcdave1@erols.com,
Turley@acninc.net, jerry@regena.com, skywriter@public-action.com,
skywriter@erols.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Length: 3378

Communiqué # 59A: From David Martin (aka, DC Dave) to Salvador & Forum, September 18, 2002

Synopsis: DC Dave publicly reveals his real name, Gary David Martin. In response to Salvador's warning to keep a civil tone (see Communiqué # 54), DC Dave challenges Salvador to kick him off the forum and boasts of being banned from several discussion groups in the past. He also complains about Salvador's summaries of email messages.

From: "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>
To: salvador_astucia@yahoo.com, sfarney@web2mail.com,
sfarney2@erols.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net,
dcdave1@erols.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com, skywriter@erols.com,
skywriter@public-action.com, Turley@acninc.net, jerry@regena.com
Bcc:
Subject: Re: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 19:52:26 +0000

My main point was that it is of some interest that this supposed
political dissident, "Slade Farney," apparently lives in the
Washington area and has not shown himself in public in the
Washington area. I don't know why this phantom should be treated
with a complete lack of suspicion when Hugh Turley and I are placed
in goldfish bowls.

Concerning my pen name, by the way, as a political writer I prefer to
be known by my second name, David, consistent with the nickname, "DC
Dave," that Jaz McKay gave me. Professionally, I am Gary Martin as I
have had on my web site,
http://thebird.org/host/dcdave/article1/080598.html ,
since August of 1998. Here is that same testimony on the U.S. House of
Representatives site:
http://edworkforce.house.gov/hearings/105th/oi/prison8598/martin.htm .

If I am banned from this forum it would not be my first banishment. I
have been kicked off David Sussman's cs list, exiled from Ray Heizer's
cas list, and punted from Jim Robinson's Free Republic.

Now, for what it is worth, although I have met him and he seems to be a
nice enough man, "Chet Lyle" is a pseudonym as well, is it not? Do we
really know any more about him than we do, say, A. S. Marques?

By the way, I see that you say on your web site in your introductory
statement to this thread that I have consistently come to the defense
of Reed Irvine's Accuracy in Media. Is there no end to the untrue charges
I must ask you to correct? You are a one-man calumny machine. I have
consistently defended myself and Hugh Turley. I have demonstrated
great ambivalence about Reed Irvine personally, mainly because of the good
work he has done on the Foster case, although he has had clearly spooky
subordinates and, overall, the organization has no more pursued truth
and justice than has the average American newspaper. As you know,
I have consistently referred people to Part 5 of my "America's Dreyfus
Affair" for my generally jaundiced view of the AIM crowd.

Now, can we expect you to withdraw this thoroughly incorrect statement,
and, while we are at it, is it to much to ask for you simply to put the
exchanges up on your forum without giving your thoroughly biased and often
disingenuously inaccurate characterizations of them?

[Omitted redundant email. See Communiqué # 54]

From David Martin Wed Sep 18 12:52:26 2002
X-Apparently-To: salvador_astucia@yahoo.com via 216.136.225.57;
18 Sep 2002 12:52:26 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path: <dcdave1@hotmail.com>
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by mta538.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2002 12:52:26 -0700 (PDT)
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with HTTP; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 19:52:26 GMT
X-Originating-IP: [146.142.39.134]
From: "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>
To: salvador_astucia@yahoo.com, sfarney@web2mail.com,
sfarney2@erols.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net,
dcdave1@erols.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com, skywriter@erols.com,
skywriter@public-action.com, Turley@acninc.net, jerry@regena.com
Bcc:
Subject: Re: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 19:52:26 +0000
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Message-ID: <F236xsEaZRdDXbmxOxn0001e3e2@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Sep 2002 19:52:26.0807 (UTC) FILETIME=[EA03DC70:01C25F4C]
Content-Length: 5660

Communiqué # 60: From DC Dave to Forum, September 18, 2002

Synopsis: DC Dave backpedals about Valentine's testimony regarding the Knowlton/Saudi connection (Exhibit A) in a manner that is difficult to summarize. He is apparently nervous about her description of how he told her on several occasions that Patrick Knowlton was chief of security at the Saudi Arabian embassy in Washington, DC.

From: "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>
To: salvador_astucia@yahoo.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, sfarney2@erols.com, sfarney@web2mail.com, dcdave1@erols.com, Turley@acninc.net, jerry@regena.com, skywriter@public-action.com, skywriter@erols.com
Bcc:
Subject: Re: Knowlton/Saudi Connection
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:25:26 +0000

So the big question is, how is it that Hugh Turley and Gary David
Martin, who turn out to be the only sources for Carol Valentine's
belief that Knowlton is not what he claims to be, are secret agents
for the bad guys. Why would they have let these things out?

Whatever Turley initially said about what he perceived to be Knowlton's
Saudi connection he later determined was not accurate, but he never
straightened it out with me. I remained, frankly, to a degree
suspicious of him. My suspicions were never so crystalized or,
indeed, verified that I would publicly suggest that he was part of
any orchestrated effort to prevent the full truth from coming out
in the Foster case. I think Carol and I both should be more careful
in the future about the sort of people to whom we convey suspicions,
and how we convey them.

Carol told His Astuteness that she had two authoritative sources that
Patrick Knowlton worked at the Saudi Embassy. As it turned out, she
didn't. She had mistaken hearsay. If I fell silent earlier on this
question it was because I didn't know the answer. Now that the matter
has been brought out into the public I have talked at length to both
Turley and Knowlton about it and set the record straight. Carol and
"Astucia" are free to call either one of them as I did and hash the
matter out any time. Knowlton does not have e-mail.

>From: Salvador Astucia <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
>To: dcdave1@hotmail.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com,
JohnHClarke@earthlink.net,
>chetlyle@bigfoot.com, sfarney2@erols.com, sfarney@web2mail.com,
>dcdave1@erols.com, Turley@acninc.net, jerry@regena.com,
>skywriter@public-action.com, skywriter@erols.com
>Subject: Knowlton/Saudi Connection
>Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 21:38:23 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>Forum Participants,
>
>I would like to focus on this particular issue for a
>bit.
>
>A lot of confusion has arisen over the Knowlton/Saudi
>connection, so I would like to set the record straight
>if that is possible.
>
>Tomorrow, September 18th, I will only post messages
>about the Knowlton/Saudi connection.
>
>John Clarke: You may want to issue a statement from
>Patrick Knowlton at this point.
>
>Regards,
>
>Salvador (moderator)

[Omitted Carol Valentine's email about Knowlton/Saudi
connection. See Exhibit A.]

----

DC Dave (David Martin)
Author of "Upton Sinclair and Timothy McVeigh," "America's Dreyfus
Affair,
the Case of the Death of Vincent Foster," and the "Seventeen Techniques
for
Truth Suppression." For those and collected writings go to
http://thebird.org/host/dcdave.

From David Martin Wed Sep 18 13:25:26 2002
X-Apparently-To: salvador_astucia@yahoo.com via 216.136.225.62; 18 Sep 2002 13:25:27 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path: <dcdave1@hotmail.com>
Received: from 216.33.241.69 (EHLO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.69)
by mta577.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2002 13:25:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
Wed, 18 Sep 2002 13:25:26 -0700
Received: from 146.142.39.134 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;
Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:25:26 GMT
X-Originating-IP: [146.142.39.134]
From: "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>
To: salvador_astucia@yahoo.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, sfarney2@erols.com, sfarney@web2mail.com, dcdave1@erols.com, Turley@acninc.net, jerry@regena.com, skywriter@public-action.com, skywriter@erols.com
Bcc:
Subject: Re: Knowlton/Saudi Connection
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:25:26 +0000
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Message-ID: <F69oMaPC78T11nEzySe0001ebcb@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Sep 2002 20:25:26.0727 (UTC) FILETIME=[8623AD70:01C25F51]
Content-Length: 4455

Communiqué # 61: From Hugh Turley to Forum, September 18, 2002

Synopsis: Hugh Turley withdraws from the Discussion Forum. He requests that his name be removed from the email list.

From: "Turley" <Turley@acninc.net>
To: sfarney@web2mail.com, "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>,
dcdave1@erols.com, skywriter@public-action.com, skywriter@erols.com,
sfarney@bigfoot.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, salvador_astucia@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:56:59 -0700

Everyone-
Please remove me from your email list.

[Omitted other emails]

From Turley Wed Sep 18 20:56:59 2002
X-Apparently-To: salvador_astucia@yahoo.com via 216.136.225.55;
18 Sep 2002 18:00:56 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path: <turley@acninc.net>
Received: from 216.126.204.132 (EHLO mail.acninc.net)
(216.126.204.132) by mta583.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP;
18 Sep 2002 18:00:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from turley [64.196.95.9] by mail.acninc.net with
ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.12) id A1C4DEDD00DC; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 19:00:52 -0600
Message-ID: <001101c25f90$9d0d0240$095fc440@turley>
From: "Turley" <Turley@acninc.net>
To: sfarney@web2mail.com, "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>,
dcdave1@erols.com, skywriter@public-action.com, skywriter@erols.com,
sfarney@bigfoot.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, salvador_astucia@yahoo.com
References: <20020918224710.52139667C3@texas3.legendum.com>
Subject: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:56:59 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
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X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
Content-Length: 957

Communiqué # 62: From DC Dave to Forum, September 18, 2002

Synopsis: DC Dave follows Hugh Turley's lead and withdraws from the Discussion Forum. He requests that his name be removed from the email list as well.

From: "David Martin" <dcdave1@erols.com>
To: salvador_astucia@yahoo.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com,
skywriter@erols.com, skywriter@public-action.com, "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>, sfarney@web2mail.com, "Turley" <Turley@acninc.net>
Subject: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 21:28:43 -0400

[Hugh Turely wrote:]
["Everyone- Please remove me from your email list."]

Not a bad idea. Take both my e-mail addresses off as well.
I think I have made my point as forcefully as I know how to
make it, that is that I am nothing more and nothing less than
the concerned private citizen that I say I am and that my web
site and Usenet postings reveal me to be. His Astuteness is
free to pursue any connection between the Oslo Accords and the
Foster death that he might or might not find, but for his case
to require that I be a spook of any stripe is simply to reduce
it to absurdity. He'll have to look elsewhere.

I also don't like debating with phantoms and dealing with
"moderators" who haven't the slightest sense of fair play.

--------
DC Dave
Author, "America's Dreyfus Affair, The Case of the Death of Vincent
Foster"
"Upton Sinclair and Timothy McVeigh"
"Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression"
http://www.thebird.org/host/dcdave
News group: alt.thebird

[Omitted redundant emails.]

From David Martin Wed Sep 18 18:28:43 2002
X-Apparently-To: salvador_astucia@yahoo.com via 216.136.225.55;
18 Sep 2002 18:28:51 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path: <dcdave1@erols.com>
Received: from 207.172.4.107 (EHLO smtp-hub.mrf.mail.rcn.net)
(207.172.4.107) by mta581.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP;
18 Sep 2002 18:28:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.62])
by smtp-hub.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #6)
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with smtp (Exim 3.35 #6) id 17rq7d-0005Sw-00; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 21:28:49 -0400
Message-ID: <008401c25f7b$e81324a0$9865fea9@WarriorPoet>
From: "David Martin" <dcdave1@erols.com>
To: salvador_astucia@yahoo.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com,
skywriter@erols.com, skywriter@public-action.com, "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>, sfarney@web2mail.com, "Turley" <Turley@acninc.net>
References: <20020918224710.52139667C3@texas3.legendum.com> <001101c25f90$9d0d0240$095fc440@turley>
Subject: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 21:28:43 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Length: 1567

Communiqué # 63: From Salvador to Forum, September 18, 2002

Synopsis: Salvador rips into DC Dave, accusing him of harboring suspicions about Knowlton's odd background for years without raising questions. Salvador states in no uncertain terms that Knowlton's background seems more like that of a professional HIT MAN than a witness who "took a leak in a park at the wrong time."

Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:37:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Knowlton/Saudi Connection
To: sfarney@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net, chetlyle@bigfoot.com,
sfarney2@erols.com, sfarney@web2mail.com, dcdave1@erols.com,* jerry@regena.com, skywriter@public-action.com, skywriter@erols.com

Mr. Martin (DC Dave) asked that I remove his name
from the email list. I will honor his request, but
I am still going to respond to his remarks about
Knowlton's Saudi connection and Carol Valentine's
recollection of conversations with him and Hugh
Turley on that subject.

See comments.

--- David Martin <dcdave1@hotmail.com> wrote:
> So the big question is, how is it that Hugh Turley
> and Gary David Martin, who turn out to be the only
> sources for Carol Valentine's belief that Knowlton
> is not what he claims to be, are secret agents for
> the bad guys[?] Why would they have let these things
> out?

Because they're low-grade secret agents for the
bad guys? :-)

> Whatever Turley initially said about what he
> perceived to be Knowlton's Saudi connection he
> later determined was not accurate, but he never
> straightened it out with me.

If Turley revised his story, why did he withdraw from
the discussion?

> I remained, frankly, to a degree suspicious of him.

How many years did you harbor these suspicions about
a central figure in the Foster case without asking
Knowlton yourself about his odd background?

You never even considered this avenue. The big
question is Why?

> My suspicions were never so crystalized or, indeed,
> verified

Because you never made an effort to crystalize them.

> that I would publicly suggest that he was
> part of any orchestrated effort to prevent the full
> truth from coming out in the Foster case.

No, that is not the suggestion. The suggestion is that
Knowlton's background seems more like that of a
professional HIT MAN than a witness who took a leak
in the park at the wrong time. His story simply does
NOT add up, his background is highly suspicious,
he was at the crime scene around the time Foster
was killed, he calls people up at work to intimidate
them if such questions are raised publicly. The list
goes on.

This is much bigger than merely preventing the truth
from coming out. Much, much bigger!

I can see why Turley left you twisting in the wind.

> I think Carol and I both should be more careful in
> the future about the sort of people to whom we convey
> suspicions, and how we convey them.

Carol does not need your counsel on Foster issues because
she never claimed to be an expert on that subject.

YOU ARE THE SO-CALLED FOSTER EXPERT!!!

> Carol told [Salvador] that she had two authoritative
> sources that Patrick Knowlton worked at the Saudi
> Embassy. As it turned out, she didn't.

What's that?

Now you claim NOT to be an authoritative source on
Patrick Knowlton, a central figure in the Foster case?

I've never seen such backpedaling.

> She had mistaken hearsay.

Carol's information came directly from Hugh Turley,
someone who witnessed first-hand that Knowlton was in
charge of security at the Saudi embassy.

If that is hearsay, why did Turley withdraw from the
discussion forum after Carol gave her recollection of
conversations with you and Turley about Knowlton's
employment at the Saudi embassy?

Turley obviously withdrew because he does not want to
explain what he told Carol about Knowlton's background.

> If I fell silent earlier on this question it was
> because I didn't know the answer. Now that the
> matter has been brought out into the public I have
> talked at length to both Turley and Knowlton about
> it and set the record straight. Carol and "Astucia"
> are free to call either one of them as I did and
> hash the matter out any time. Knowlton does not
> have e-mail.

Sorry, but Mr. Knowlton can go to any library and send
an email with a free Yahoo account. If he doesn't know
how, I'm sure he can ask any number of 14 year-old
computer geeks how it's done. Or he can have his
lawyer John Clarke send a response. I'm sure AIM will
gladly foot the bill.

[* I sent an email to one of DC Dave's addresses by
accident.]

[Omitted redundant email.]

From Salvador Astucia Wed Sep 18 20:37:56 2002
Received: from [152.163.189.132] by web14909.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:37:56 PDT
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:37:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Knowlton/Saudi Connection
To: sfarney@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net, chetlyle@bigfoot.com,
sfarney2@erols.com, sfarney@web2mail.com, dcdave1@erols.com, jerry@regena.com, skywriter@public-action.com, skywriter@erols.com
In-Reply-To: <F69oMaPC78T11nEzySe0001ebcb@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Length: 2161

Communiqué # 64: From Yahoo to Salvador, September 18, 2002

Synopsis: Patrick Knowlton's attorney, John Clarke, withdraws from the Discussion Forum. Yahoo sends Salvador a MAILER-DAEMON indicating that Clarke's email account is either canceled or blocking Salvador's messages. (NOTE: Clarke had been ccd on the Forum emails for several days.)

Date: 19 Sep 2002 03:38:02 -0000
From: MAILER-DAEMON@yahoo.com
To: salvador_astucia@yahoo.com
Subject: failure delivery

Message from yahoo.com.
Unable to deliver message to the following address(es).

<JohnHClarke@earthlink.net>:
207.217.120.79 does not like recipient.
Remote host said: 554 Quota violation for johnhclarke@earthlink.net
Giving up on 207.217.120.79.

--- Original message follows.

Return-Path: <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020919033756.52194.qmail@web14909.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [152.163.189.132] by web14909.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:37:56 PDT
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:37:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Salvador Astucia <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Knowlton/Saudi Connection
To: sfarney@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net,
chetlyle@bigfoot.com,
sfarney2@erols.com, sfarney@web2mail.com, dcdave1@erols.com,
jerry@regena.com, skywriter@public-action.com, skywriter@erols.com
In-Reply-To: <F69oMaPC78T11nEzySe0001ebcb@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Mr. Martin (DC Dave) asked that I remove his name
from the email list. I will honor his request, but
I am still going to respond to his remarks about
Knowlton's Saudi connection and Carol Valentine's
recollection of conversations with him and Hugh
Turley on that subject.

[Omitted remainder of returned email.]

From MAILER-DAEMON@yahoo.com Wed Sep 18 20:38:02 2002
X-Apparently-To: salvador_astucia@yahoo.com via 216.136.225.56;
18 Sep 2002 20:38:03 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path: <>
Received: from 216.136.225.61 (HELO web14909.mail.yahoo.com)
(216.136.225.61) by mta578.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP;
18 Sep 2002 20:38:03 -0700 (PDT)
Date: 19 Sep 2002 03:38:02 -0000
From: MAILER-DAEMON@yahoo.com
To: salvador_astucia@yahoo.com
Subject: failure delivery
Content-Length: 2669

Communiqué # 65: From Yahoo to Salvador, September 18, 2002

Synopsis: Salvador sends a test email to John Clarke to confirm that messages are in fact being blocked from Clarke's email account. The results are positve: Clarke has definitely dropped out of the discussion forum.

Date: 19 Sep 2002 03:46:14 -0000
From: MAILER-DAEMON@yahoo.com
To: salvador_astucia@yahoo.com
Subject: failure delivery

Message from yahoo.com.
Unable to deliver message to the following address(es).

<johnhclarke@earthlink.net>:
207.217.120.79 does not like recipient.
Remote host said: 554 Quota violation for johnhclarke@earthlink.net
Giving up on 207.217.120.79.

--- Original message follows.

Return-Path: <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020919034614.13530.qmail@web14910.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [152.163.189.66] by web14910.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:46:14 PDT
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:46:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Salvador Astucia <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: THIS IS A TEST.
To: johnhclarke@earthlink.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hello, John Clarke.

=====
Salvador Astucia, author of "Opium Lords" (416 pages), the book that
solved the JFK murder.

* View online at http://www.jfkmontreal.com

* or purchase book for $29 in USA, $34 worldwide (includes shipping).
See ordering info. at http://www.jfkmontreal.com/order_hardcopy.htm

From MAILER-DAEMON@yahoo.com Wed Sep 18 20:46:14 2002
X-Apparently-To: salvador_astucia@yahoo.com via 216.136.225.54;
18 Sep 2002 20:46:15 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path: <>
Received: from 216.136.225.62 (HELO web14910.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.225.62) by mta594.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2002 20:46:14 -0700 (PDT)
Date: 19 Sep 2002 03:46:14 -0000
From: MAILER-DAEMON@yahoo.com
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Communiqué # 66: [Exhibit B] From Salvador to Forum, September 19, 2002

Synopsis: Salvador discloses that the Saudi Ambassador's residence was within 570 feet of the spot where Foster's body was found. Salvador's cites passages from a 1997 book written by British journalist Ambrose Evans-Pritchard to support his assertion. Salvador remarks that as former chief of security at the Saudi Embassy, Knowlton must have been quite familiar with the
ambassador’s residence. Therefore, there was no need to urinate in the park. He could have knocked on the ambassador's door.

Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 00:06:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: New Evidence - Knowlton/Saudi Connection
To: sfarney@bigfoot.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com,
sfarney2@erols.com, sfarney@web2mail.com, jerry@regena.com,
skywriter@public-action.com, skywriter@erols.com

At this time I wish to introduce new evidence into the
discussion.

Although the evidence itself has been around for five
years, it is highly relevant to the discussion about
Patrick Knowlton’s past employment with the Saudi
Arabian embassy as described in Carol Valentine’s
testimony. (see Exhibit A)

I refer now to a book written by British journalist
Ambrose Evans-Pritchard in 1997 entitled "The Secret
Life of Bill Clinton."

Pages 120 and 134 of the stated book indicate that the
residence of the Saudi Arabian ambassador is located
within 570 feet of the spot where Vince Foster’s body
was found in Fort Marcy Park, in Fairfax County,
Virginia on July 20, 1993.

Evans-Pritchard described an anonymous witness, known
by researchers as the "Confidential Witness" (CW), who
discovered Foster’s body. The British journalist wrote
that it was "eerily silent" as CW stood over Foster’s
body. It was so silent that CW "could hear people
talking at the Saudi Ambassador’s residence across
Chain Bridge Road." (p 120)

Does anyone really believe that Patrick
Knowlton--former chief of security at the Saudi Arabian
embassy--just wandered into Fort Marcy Park to urinate
on the day Vince Foster was killed?

Why didn’t he knock on the door of the Saudi
ambassador’s home less than 570 feet from Vince
Foster’s body?

As former chief of security at the Saudi Embassy,
Knowlton must have been quite familiar with the
ambassador’s residence.

Salvador Astucia

NOTE: I wish to label this email Exhibit B.

=====
Salvador Astucia, author of "Opium Lords" (416 pages), the book that
solved the JFK murder.

* View online at http://www.jfkmontreal.com

* or purchase book for $29 in USA, $34 worldwide (includes shipping).
See ordering info. at http://www.jfkmontreal.com/order_hardcopy.htm

From Salvador Astucia Thu Sep 19 00:06:05 2002
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 00:06:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: New Evidence - Knowlton/Saudi Connection
To: sfarney@bigfoot.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com,
sfarney2@erols.com, sfarney@web2mail.com, jerry@regena.com,
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Communiqué # 67: From John Clarke to Salvador, September 19, 2002

Synopsis: Clarke formally drops out of the discussion group. He requests that his name be removed from the discussion list.

Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:03:13 -0700
From: johnhclarke@earthlink.net
To: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
CC: sfarney@web2mail.com, "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>, sfarney2@erols.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net, dcdave1@erols.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com, skywriter@erols.com, skywriter@public-action.com, Turley@acninc.net, jerry@regena.com
Subject: Re: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum

Please take me off your discussion list.

Thank you.

John Clarke
[Omitted address & phone number.]

From johnhclarke@earthlink.net Thu Sep 19 14:03:13 2002
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Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:03:13 -0700
From: johnhclarke@earthlink.net
To: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
CC: sfarney@web2mail.com, "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>, sfarney2@erols.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, JohnHClarke@earthlink.net, dcdave1@erols.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com, skywriter@erols.com, skywriter@public-action.com, Turley@acninc.net, jerry@regena.com
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Subject: Re: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
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Communiqué # 68: From Slade Farney to DC Dave & Forum, September 19, 2002

Synopsis: Slade serenades DC Dave to the country tune of "Release Me."

"Please release me, le' me go
'Cause I don' love you anymo'
Mah words are only lahs* for you
And what you're saying cain't be true" :-)

[* I believe he means, "MY words are only LIES for you..." :-) ]

To: "David Martin" <dcdave1@erols.com>, salvador_astucia@yahoo.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, sfarney@bigfoot.com, skywriter@erols.com, skywriter@public-action.com, "David Martin" <dcdave1@hotmail.com>, sfarney@web2mail.com, "Turley" <Turley@acninc.net>
Subject: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
From: sfarney@web2mail.com
CC:
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 01:43:23 +0000 (GMT)

--------------------------------------------------
Here is a message for you from http://web2mail.com
The easy way to read and send POP email on the web
--------------------------------------------------

David Martin <dcdave1@erols.com>:
> Not a bad idea. Take both my e-mail addresses off as well.
> I think I have made my point as forcefully as I know how to
> make it, that is that I am nothing more and nothing less than
> the concerned private citizen that I say I am and that my web
> site and Usenet postings reveal me to be. His Astuteness is
> free to pursue any connection between the Oslo Accords and
> the Foster death that he might or might not find, but for his
> case to require that I be a spook of any stripe is simply to
> reduce it to absurdity. He'll have to look elsewhere.
>
> I also don't like debating with phantoms and dealing with
> "moderators" who haven't the slightest sense of fair play.

Everyone you have ever debated on the internet was a phantom.
Think about it.

Please release me, le' me go
'Cause I don' love you anymo'
Mah words are only lahs for you
And what you're saying cain't be true

--Slade

From sfarney@web2mail.com Thu Sep 19 18:43:23 2002
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Subject: Re: Re-opening Foster-Oslo discussion forum
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Communiqué # 69: From X98 to UseNet, [Belated posting from alt.thebird, September 16, 2002]

Synopsis: Andrew X98 weighs in on alt.thebird (DC Dave's stomping ground) and observed that DC looks "pretty damn SPOOKY." "To characterize Carol's words as 'warped and distorted' is shocking enough," Andrew remarked, "but to have passed her work on to ANYBODY without her permission is not innocent--- it is criminal." He noted how unfortunate it is "when light turns to darkness."

From: X98 (x98@earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Modern Man
Newsgroups: alt.thebird
View this article only
Date: 2002-09-16 23:02:40 PST

In the Name of the TRUTHFUL

Holy SHIT Dave! I've been out the loop for a while and don't have time

tonight to catch up on all of this but from what I've read in the past

hour--- you are looking pretty damn SPOOKY to me. To characterize

Carol's words as "warped and distorted" is shocking enough, but to

have passed her work on to ANYBODY without her permission is not

innocent--- it is criminal. Carol's work is vital to the freedom of this
nation and individual freedom of thought. After I investigate this thread

from Salvador further I will say more, but then maybe I have already

said what is most important for all to see and that is; You D.C. Dave,

are looking pretty damned SPOOKY!

Damn it! I hate it when light turns to darkness!!!

X98

Communiqué # 70: [Exhibit C] From Salvador to Forum, September 20, 2002

Synopsis: Salvador presents Exhibit C, Statement of Facts. He instructs Forum participants to comment only on the accuracy of the facts presented therein, not to criticize or defend Patrick Knowlton’s veracity as an eye-witness. He states that the overall objective is to reach consensus among all participants about the basic facts of the Foster case so that informed debate can continue.

Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 21:15:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: Statement of Facts (about Foster Case)
To: sfarney@bigfoot.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com,
sfarney2@erols.com, sfarney@web2mail.com, jerry@regena.com,
skywriter@public-action.com, skywriter@erols.com,
x98@earthlink.net

I wish to present, as Exhibit C, a statement of facts.
The objective is to provide background about the death
of Vince Foster and ensuing events related to
eye-witness Patrick Knowlton, his testimony, his claim
of harassment by the US Government, and ultimately his
harassment suit against the US Government.

Forum participants are instructed to comment only on
the accuracy of the facts presented herein, not to
criticize or defend Patrick Knowlton’s veracity as an
eye-witness.

The overall objective is to reach consensus among all
participants about the basic facts of the Foster case
so that informed debate can continue.

Here are the basic facts about the Foster case:

* Park Police found the body of Deputy White House
Counsel Vincent W. Foster on July 20, 1993, at 6:14 PM
at Fort Marcy Park in Fairfax County, Virginia. The
body was lying in shrubs by the second canon (Civil
War relic).(1)

* Foster’s death was officially ruled suicide. He
reportedly shot himself in the mouth with a .38
caliber Colt revolver.(2)

* Forensic evidence suggests a different conclusion.
Former Associate Independent Counsel Miquel Rodriguez
found a photograph showing a "dime-sized hole on the
right side of Foster’s neck (his left side) about half
way between the chin and the ear. It was marked by a
black ‘stippled’ ring suggestive of a .22 caliber
gunshot fired at point blank range into the flesh."(3)

* Miquel Rodriguez resigned in frustration from his
position as Associate Independent Counsel for Kenneth
Starr on March 20, 1995.(4)

* Five homes are within 570 feet of the spot where
Foster’s body was found. About 50 more houses are
within a quarter mile. No one heard a shot.(5)

* One of the homes within 570 feet of the spot where
Foster’s body was found was the residence of the Saudi
Arabian ambassador.(6)

* The official government position is that Foster
drove himself to Fort Marcy Park in his grey 1989
Honda Accord, parked, walked into the woods, put a
pistol in his mouth and pulled the trigger. Four
eye-witnesses have refuted that conclusion by stating
that a much older Brown colored Honda Accord was at
Fort Marcy Park, but with Foster’s actual license
plate (Arkansas RCN504).(7)

* Ambrose Evans-Pritchard makes a compelling argument
that Foster did not drive his car to Fort Marcy Park
because he did not drive his car to work that day. At
least the logs do not indicate he parked it in his
normal reserved spot.(8)

* Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, Hugh Turley, David Martin,
and John Clarke all assert that the license plate of
Foster’s grey 1989 Honda Accord was switched onto a
much older beat-up looking brown colored Honda Accord.

* Patrick Knowlton’s testimony before the FBI and
Kenneth Starr’s Whitewater grand jury is consistent
with the hypothesis that the license plate on Foster’s
1989 grey Honda Accord was switched to an older model
brown colored Honda Accord. Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
wrote that FBI investigators altered eye-witness
testimony of three other people to indicate that the
Honda Accord at Fort Marcy Park was grey instead of
brown and that it was a 1989 model when in reality it
was much older.

* Knowlton reportedly stopped at Fort Marcy Park
between 4:15 and 4:30 PM(9) on July 20, 1993 (day of
Foster’s death) to urinate in the woods. Ambrose
Evans-Pritchard wrote that the traffic was "snarled"
on the George Washington Parkway and he had no choice
but to pull over. [Knowlton reportedly began the drive from

Chevy Chase, MD en route to a cabin he owned in the

Blue Ridge Mountains, normally about a two hour drive.

A handy man of sorts, Knowlton was reportedly remodeling a

Chevy Chase house but decided to go to his cabin on

Tuesday, July 20, 1993. Before leaving, he had a swim

and stopped at the bank. To get to his destination, he took

the George Washington Parkway where traffic was "snarled."

At some point he realized he needed to urinate, so he pulled

over at Fort Marcy Park.(10)--see Footnote 1]

* Before finding a tree on which to urinate, Knowlton
observed a menacing looking Hispanic man (possibly
Middle Eastern) keeping watch over the entrance to
Fort Marcy Park. Knowlton stated that the man made him
"feel extremely nervous and uneasy." (11)

* Although Knowlton was afraid the menacing looking
Hispanic man might mug him, he proceeded to find a
tree and quickly urinated on it.(12)

* Ambrose Evans-Pritchard hired an off-duty police
artist to draw a picture of the menacing looking
Hispanic man based on Knowlton’s description. The
picture appeared in the October 22, 1995 issue of the
Sunday Telegraph. An accompanying article by Ambrose
Evans-Pritchard stated that Ken Starr had not called
Knowlton before a grand jury. Nor had he called two
other witnesses. (an adulterous couple whose names are
withheld under gag order to protect their respective
marriages) Four days later Starr issued a subpoena for
Knowlton to appear before the Whitewater grand
jury.(13)

* Knowlton claims he was harassed by the Federal
government at the behest of Ken Starr and the FBI. He
claims to have endured the following:

    - On May 10, 1994, Knowlton’s car was vandalized
by an FBI "spook" named Scott Jeffrey Bickett. The
vandalism occurred the night before Knowlton’s second
scheduled interrogation by the FBI on May 11th.(14)

    - On the evening of October 26, 1995, several
menacing looking men starred long and hard at Knowlton
and his girlfriend Kathryn as they walked the streets
of Washington, DC.(15)

    - Around noon on October 27, 1995, journalist
Chris Ruddy reportedly witnessed governmental
harassment of Knowlton. Ruddy described it as "a
surveillance net of at least thirty people harassing
Patrick…"(16)

    - Later the same day (October 27th), someone
reportedly entered Knowlton’s apartment building and
banged on the door. When he answered no one was
there.(17)

    - Knowlton received several phone calls where the
caller hung up when the phone was answered. Outside, a
man wearing a green trenchcoat starred at Knowlton
through his window. (October 27)(18)

    - Ambrose Evans-Pritchard reportedly rounded up a
"posse" to watch outside of Knowlton’s apartment
building, but the harassment had stopped when they
arrived. The group (known as the "truth militia")
consisted of Chris Ruddy, Hugh Sprunt, Ambrose
Evans-Pritchard, and an unnamed professional
clown.(19)

* In October 1996, Patrick Knowlton filed an
harassment law suit against the US Government. The
suit was a "federal tort claim" filed in the U.S.
District Court in Washington, DC, case number 96-2467.
The suit alleged a "conspiracy to violate Knowlton’s
civil rights, to inflict emotional distress, and to
dissuade him from testifying truthfully before the
federal grand jury."(20)

* Knowlton’s lawyer was John H. Clarke.(21)

* John Clarke received an unspecified amount of money
from Accuracy in Media (AIM) to cover Knowlton’s legal
expenses.(22)

* Another eye-witness—known to Foster researchers
as "Confidential Witness" (CW)—also stopped to urinate
at Fort Marcy Park on July 20, 1993. CW claims he
discovered the body before the Park Police.(23)

[Footnote 1: On September 22, 2002, Salvador added

details about Knowlton’s traveling itinerary on Tuesday,

July 20, 1993.]

--END--

SOURCES: "The Secret Life of Bill Clinton" by British
journalist Ambrose Evans Pritchard, 1997; public
statement by Reed Irvine to author, August 2002; David
Martin’s website; Hugh Turley’s website.

NOTES:

[1] Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, The Secret Life of Bill
Clinton, p 124
[2] ibid, p 121
[3] ibid, p 140
[4] ibid, pp 112 & 151
[5] ibid, p 134
[6] ibid, pp 120 & 134
[7] ibid, pp 155-170
[8] ibid, pp 165-170
[9] ibid, p 158
[10] ibid, [pp 159-160]
[11] ibid, p 158
[12] ibid, p 160
[13] ibid, p 164
[14] ibid, pp 162-163
[15] ibid, p 171
[16] ibid, p 172
[17] ibid, p 173
[18] ibid, p 173
[19] ibid, p 173
[20] ibid, p 177
[21] ibid, p 177
[22] Reed Irvine (head of AIM) publicly admitted to
Salvador Astucia that AIM contributed money to Patrick
Knowlton’s legal defense fund.
[23] Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, pp 119-120

------

=====
Salvador Astucia, author of "Opium Lords" (416 pages), the book that
solved the JFK murder.

* View online at http://www.jfkmontreal.com

* or purchase book for $29 in USA, $34 worldwide (includes shipping).
See ordering info. at http://www.jfkmontreal.com/order_hardcopy.htm

From Salvador Astucia Fri Sep 20 21:15:13 2002
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 21:15:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: Statement of Facts (about Foster Case)
To: sfarney@bigfoot.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com,
sfarney2@erols.com, sfarney@web2mail.com, jerry@regena.com,
skywriter@public-action.com, skywriter@erols.com,
x98@earthlink.net
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Communiqué # 71: From Salvador to Forum, September 22, 2002

Synopsis: Salvador notifies Forum participants that he has added new information to Exhibit C, Statement of Facts, regarding Patrick Knowlton's travel itinerary on Tuesday, July 20, 1993.

Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 11:58:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: (Foster Debate) Update to Exhibit C, Statement of Facts
To: sfarney@bigfoot.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, sfarney2@erols.com,
sfarney@web2mail.com, jerry@regena.com, skywriter@public-action.com,
skywriter@erols.com, x98@earthlink.net
MIME-Version: 1.0

Dear Forum Participants:

I added an update to the Statement of Facts as
presented in Exhibit C.

The update provides more information about Patrick
Knowlton's traveling itinerary on Tuesday, July 20,
1993, the day Foster's body was found in Fort Marcy
Park.

Here is the update in full context: (New information
is in square brackets.)

* Knowlton reportedly stopped at Fort Marcy Park
between 4:15 and 4:30 PM(9) on July 20, 1993 (day of
Foster’s death) to urinate in the woods. Ambrose
Evans-Pritchard wrote that the traffic was "snarled"
on the George Washington Parkway and he had no choice
but to pull over. [Knowlton reportedly began the drive
from his home in Chevy Chase, MD en route to a cabin
he owned in the Blue Ridge mountains, normally about a
two hour drive. He was reportedly remodeling his Chevy
Chase home but decided to quit and go to his cabin on
Tuesday, July 20, 1993. Before leaving, he had a swim
and stopped at the bank. To get to his destination, he
took the George Washington Parkway where traffic was
"snarled." At some point he realized he needed to
urinate, so he pulled over at Fort Marcy Park.(10)...]

...
[10] [Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, The Secret Life of Bill
Clinton, pp 159-160]

=====
Salvador Astucia, author of "Opium Lords" (416 pages), the book that
solved the JFK murder.

* View online at http://www.jfkmontreal.com

* or purchase book for $29 in USA, $34 worldwide (includes shipping).
See ordering info. at http://www.jfkmontreal.com/order_hardcopy.htm

From Salvador Astucia Sun Sep 22 11:58:58 2002
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 11:58:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: (Foster Debate) Update to Exhibit C, Statement of Facts
To: sfarney@bigfoot.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, sfarney2@erols.com,
sfarney@web2mail.com, jerry@regena.com, skywriter@public-action.com,
skywriter@erols.com, x98@earthlink.net
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Communiqué # 72: From Salvador to Forum, September 22, 2002

Synopsis: Salvador criticizes Patrick Knowlton's version of events on Tuesday, July 20, 1993 (the day Foster's body was found). Salvador instructs participants to comment only on the criticisms he has presented, or raise additional criticisms based on the facts presented in Exhibit C. Comments unrelated to these areas will not be posted.

Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 22:35:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Salvador Astucia" <salvador_astucia@yahoo.com>
Subject: Criticisms of Patrick Knowlton’s Story
To: sfarney@bigfoot.com, chetlyle@bigfoot.com, sfarney2@erols.com, sfarney@web2mail.com, jerry@regena.com, skywriter@public-action.com, skywriter@erols.com

Readers,

The Statement of Facts, Exhibit C, was posted Friday
evening, September 20th. It has been on public display
for over forty-eight hours and no one has disputed any
facts presented therein. Yesterday (Saturday,
September 21st) I posted an update of the Foster-Oslo
discussion thread on nine Usenet news groups. About 30
hours have passed and no one has replied publicly or
privately. The stated update was posted to the
following newsgroups:

alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater
alt.politics.bush
alt.politics.democrats.d
alt.politics.liberalism
alt.politics.usa.republican
alt.thebird
alt.true-crime
talk.politics.mideast
va.general

Since no one has d