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Paul did NOT play on She Said She Said
From: Salvador Astucia (cropdustersal@cs.com)
Subject: Paul did NOT play on She Said She Said.
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Date: 2004-09-20 15:54:19 PST
There seems to be some doubt as to whether Paul played and
sang on She Said She Said, even though he has publicly
admitted he did not.
Here is a good exchange which will hopefully put the debate
to rest once and for all.
Salvador
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Subject: Re: John claimed Paul tried to destroy/sabotage his great songs
From: longtallsally11@aol.com (LongTallSally11)
Date: 9/20/04 2:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <20040920144521.27265.00001290@mb-m03.aol.com>
[...]
[Salvador]
>> The following is Paul's description of how he walked out of the
>> recording session during She Said She Said:
>>
>> "It's a nice one. I like the title 'She Said She Said,' which I
>> think was made up on the session. John brought it in pretty much
>> finished, I think. I'm not sure but I think it was one of the
>> only Beatle records I never played on. I think we had a barney
>> [argument] or something and I said, 'Oh, fuck you!' and they said,
>> 'Well, we'll do it.' I think George played bass."
>>
>> (Barry Miles, Paul McCartney: Many Years From Now, p 288)
[Dave Tru/Wildstar]
> Hmmmmmmmm let's see - "I'm not sure but I think it was one of the only
> Beatle records I never played on."
>
> "I'm not sure but I think that...." Oh yeah - that's concrete proof.
> No thanks.
Certainly Paul remembers whether he played or sang on She Said She Said
or not. If he can't remember something like that, then he's really
losing his mental faculties, since he played on most Beatle recordings.
His vagueness was probably because he did not want to commit to saying
that SSSS was the ONLY Beatle song where he did not perform, because he
genuinely cannot remember if he didn't play on every single one, or maybe
he doesn't count George's sitar songs as genuine Beatle music. The term
"Beatle record/song" is somewhat nebulous because the Beatles began
doing so much solo stuff while the group was still together.
And since Paul, by his own admission, was not present for the entire
session, he didn't actually witness the bass part being play, so
he doesn't know absolutely whether George played it or if John played
it. Therefore, he can only speculate, but he "thinks" George played bass.
This stuff ain't complicated.
[Dave Tru/Wildstar]
> He says "I think" FIVE times in that one paragraph that you are
> holding up as gospel truth.
True, Paul gives himself a lot of wiggle room, but his admission that
he got mad and walked out during the recording of She Said She Said
is abundantly clear, except to McCartney apologists.
[Dave Tru/Wildstar]
> I'd prefer to believe studio documentation written at the time of
> recording from which both John Barrett and Mark Lewisohn conducted
> their research along with their studies of the original multitrack
> tapes, over half-assed confused and muddled half-rememberances 30-40
> years after the fact. Can YOU remember EXACTLY how you spent one
> particular given day 30+ years ago? Apart from saying "I was probably
> filling my diaper" I certainly can't.
>
> So you want to quote that particular book then - OK.
Lewisohn's book, "The Beatles Recording Sessions" generally confirms
Paul's statements in Barry Miles' book, "Paul McCartney: Many Years From
Now." Lewisohn's book reveals the following notes about the SSSS
recording session:
"[21 June 1966] It took just shy of nine hours to record 'She Said She
Said', the group spending most of the time rehearsing through at least
25 takes. Then the recording proper began, with three takes of the rhythm
track (in this instance drums, bass and two guitars). Take three was the
'best' so the lead vocal (John) and backing (John and George) were
overdubbed onto this. A reduction mix vacated one of the four tracks where
an additional guitar and organ part (played by John) were soon taped. The
song now complete, three mono remixes were done, though none made it onto
the finished album--that was remix four, from 22 June."
(Mark Lewisohn, The Beatles Recording Sessions, p 84)
As you can see, Lewisohn's book indicates that John and George sang the
vocal parts. If Paul was present at the entire session, as you (Dave Tru)
seem to think (even though Paul himself admits he got mad and left),
then why wouldn't the session notes show Paul singing the harmony part
instead of George? Paul is known for singing the high harmony parts with
John, and the harmony part for SSSS is definitely a high harmony part,
the type Paul would normally sing. George didn't normally sing those parts,
but
Lewisohn's book indicates that George sang the harmony part on SSSS, not
Paul.
Why? Lewisohn's book further indicates that a basic rhythm track was
recorded
using drums, bass and two guitars, but it does not say specifically who
played what, or if overdubbing was done on the rhythm track. Keep in mind,
Lewisohn's book is based on recording notes of Beatle sessions. If all four
Beatles showed up for a recording session, and one band member got mad
at the others and stormed out, but the others compensated by playing and
singing the upset guy's part, it might NOT have been documented properly.
This is called "winging it." In addition, the engineer making the notes
(or whoever made them) certainly would NOT write, "Paul got mad and walked
out, so the others covered for him." Professional people simply don't put
things like that in writing, not if they value their employment.
Salvador
===
Ordering information for Salvador Astucia's books can be found at
http://www.jfkmontreal.com/raveningwolf/
Also see Astucia's homepage:
http://www.jfkmontreal.com
Point by point analysis of
Mark Lewisohn's description of recording
process
From:
[Salvador Astucia]
Subject: Re: Paul did NOT play on She Said She Said.
Newsgroups: rec.music.beatles
Date: 2004-10-25 21:11:09 PST
Comments below are responses to the following section from
my book, "Rethinking John Lennon's Assassination:"
"McCartney refused to play on She Said She Said"
http://www.jfkmontreal.com/john_lennon/Chapter06.htm#SheSaid
=============================
[Salvador]
>> >> You're just trying and prove Paul did not get angry
>> >> and walk out of the studio during the SSSS session as he
>> >> himself claims;
[Dave Tru]
>> > No I have NEVER made that claim because I have nothing to
>> > prove or disprove that fact either way. I don't make shit
>> > up like you do.
[Salvador]
>> >> and you're claiming Paul actually played bass, even though
>> >> he denies it.
[Dave Tru]
>> > Yes - since ALL evidence points to that. You must admit in
>> > a court of law I would have a stronger case - a mountain of
>> > documented evidence against one quote. I imagine McCartney
>> > would be in serious danger of being accused of purjury in a
>> > court of law.
[Salvador]
>> At this point, Dave, it's obvious to me that even YOU do not
>> believe your own arguments. You're just blowing smoke.
>> Please don't pretend to be insulted because we both know
>> you're not even offended when I make such remarks. How could
>> you be insulted? We both know you're just playing a game.
>>
>> You seem fairly bright, too bright to actually believe the
>> nonsense you're pushing (particularly your latest remark about
>> Paul being prosecuted for perjury). And it's such a trivial point.
>> I'm sure several people are asking themselves, "Why is
>> Dave debating Salvador on this point?" We both agree Paul
>> got mad and walked out of the studio during the recording
>> session for She Said She Said. We both agree he did not sing
>> the high tenor backup vocal part. There's not much left that
>> we actually disagree over, except you CLAIM to believe Paul
>> played bass even though you also believe he got mad and walked
>> out of the studio. But you only believe he played bass
>> (CORRECTION: You only CLAIM to believe he played bass...)
>> because of anomaly in Mark Lewisohn's description of the
>> recording session for SSSS from the book, The Beatles Recording
>> Sessions. And we both know Lewisohn's description of the
>> session is probably slightly flawed, and I have provided a
>> completely reasonable and logical explanation of how he could
>> have made such a mistake. We both know my explanation is valid,
>> and we both know Paul did not play or sing on She Said She
>> Said. We both know he did not. We both know he admitted he
>> did not, and consequently, we both know his admission pretty
>> much destroys your argument.
>>
>> And we both know why you're doing this. You're trying to
>> discredit my assertion (theory, if that word floats your
>> boat) that EMI helped sabotage John's music on Revolver
>> as part of an effort to harass John Lennon and destroy
>> the Beatles in 1966. I know you'll never admit it because,
>> but we both know it's true.
>>
>> For readers who want a reality check on what really happened
>> to John Lennon, read this:
>>
>>
http://www.jfkmontreal.com/john_lennon/lennon_report.htm
[Timothy Jones]
> A take isn't a take until the bass has been added.
A better way to state it is a bass part must be present
in order to qualify as a rhythm section.
[Timothy Jones]
> First George plays in a take with one guitar, then he
> adds the other guitar to that recording.
We don't really know which was recorded first, the guitar
or the bass. I suspect George played bass first, and I
will explain why and how shortly.
[Timothy Jones]
> Now they have a take.
Now they have a rhythm section, which may be multiple
tracks.
[Timothy Jones]
> Then they listen to the take.
Not necessarily. We don't know when they listened to
the rhythm section recordings. They probably made
multiple takes of the rhythm section, then listened
to all three and picked the best.
[Timothy Jones]
> Then they reject it.
I disagree. See previous comment.
[Timothy Jones]
> Why would Paul "play in a rejected take", but not George?
We only know that--according to Paul--he did not play on
the final mix. Whether he played on interim versions
is speculation.
As I stated before, Mark Lewisohn's description of the
session is slightly flawed, and therefore misleading;
and I have already provided--earlier in this thread--
a completely reasonable and logical explanation of how
he could have made such a mistake.
Having stating that, I can show additional flaws in
Lewisohn's description of the SSSS recording session.
Close analysis of Lewisohn's words reveal that his
explanation was an abbreviated, summarized explanation
of how SSSS was recorded; many details were omitted.
Therefore, it is impossible to draw any definite
conclusions--from Lewisohn's description--that
contradict Paul's admission that he did not play on
SSSS.
Here is Lewisohn's entire description:
"[21 June 1966] It took just shy of nine hours
to record 'She Said She Said', the group spending
most of the time rehearsing through at least
25 takes. Then the recording proper began, with
three takes of the rhythm track (in this instance
drums, bass and two guitars). Take three was the
'best' so the lead vocal (John) and backing (John
and George) were overdubbed onto this. A reduction
mix vacated one of the four tracks where an
additional guitar and organ part (played by John)
were soon taped. The song now complete, three mono
remixes were done, though none made it onto the
finished album--that was remix four, from 22 June."
(Mark Lewisohn, The Beatles Recording Sessions, p 84)
Here is Lewisohn's description again, sentence by
sentence, with each sentence followed by my comments:
LEWISOHN: "[21 June 1966] It took just shy of nine hours
to record 'She Said She Said', the group spending
most of the time rehearsing through at least 25 takes."
SALVADOR: We do not know if Paul played bass on any
of the rehearsal tapes, because Paul did not specify
when he got mad and walked out of the recording session.
And Lewisohn did not specify who played bass on the
rehearsal takes. Therefore, we must conclude that the
identity of the bass player is unknown for the 25 plus
rehearsal takes. It's possible that Paul played some
or all of them, but we don't really know. Even if he
did play, these were only rehearsal takes, not the
final version. Therefore, it is a moot point whether
Paul played or not on the rehearsal takes.
LEWISOHN: "Then the recording proper began, with
three takes of the rhythm track (in this instance
drums, bass and two guitars)."
SALVADOR: Lewishohn does not state how the "rhythm track
was recorded. If it was recorded live on one track,
that would mean Paul, or another fourth musician
played. But if the rhythm track was overdubbed using
multiple tracks, then mixed down to one track, it
could easily have been recorded without Paul.
Lewishohn simply does not provide enough detail to
make this determination. For example, Lewishohn does
not specify if a scratch track was used. If a scratch
was in fact used, then multi-tracking was probably
incorporated to record the rhythm section. For those
who don't know what a scratch track is, it's a rough
version of a song recorded on a single track for
cueing purposes. As other instruments are added to
additional tracks, each musician listens to the
scratch track and plays along while recording. Usually
the scratch track is removed from the final mix.
Again, we don't know if a scratch track was used,
but the mere fact that at least 25 rehearsal takes were
recorded suggests that one of the rehearsal takes was
used as the scratch track. Otherwise, why record
the Beatles while they were rehearsing? Apparently
the rehearsal takes were recorded in order to get a
good scratch track. If so, this means the best version
from the rehearsal takes was probably copied multiple
times, back-to-back, on a second tape recorder. This
would be done to prepare for several takes of the
rhythm sections. Each iteration of the scratch track
would probably have an intro saying, "She Said
She Said, Take 1," "[SSSS] Take 2," and so on.
Since Lewisohn did not specify how the rhythm track
was recorded (live versus multi-tracked with a
scratch tape), then it would be a mistake to conclude
that four musicians recorded the rhythm section live.
LEWISOHN: "Take three was the 'best' so the lead vocal
(John) and backing (John and George) were overdubbed onto
this."
SALVADOR: Much has been made about three takes of the
rhythm section. Some say George would not have overdubbed
on the two rejected takes. That is one possibility, but
again, we really don't know. A more plausible explanation
is--as previously stated--John, George, and Ringo recorded
three rhythm section takes, using a live rehearsal take
as a scratch track, then overdubbed as needed to get
THREE different versions of the rhythm section, each
version containing drums, bass, and two guitars. Then
they listened to all three versions and picked the one
they liked best. The selected version was probably mixed
down to one track. At that point, John recorded the
lead vocal on one track, then he and George overdubbed
the backing harmony parts.
The fact that Paul's name was not listed as a backing
vocalist indicates Paul was not present during this
phase of the session. Had Paul been there, he would certainly
have recorded the high tenor backing vocal part, which was
his normal harmony part. Lewisohn's disclosure that only
George and John sang backing vocals supports Paul's claim
that he walked out of the recording studio in the middle of
the session.
LEWISOHN: "A reduction mix vacated one of the four tracks
where an additional guitar and organ part (played by John)
were soon taped."
SALVADOR: This sentence, in particular, demonstrates that
Lewishohn's overall description of the recording session
is abbreviated. Lewishohn indicates that John recorded two
instruments on "one of the four tracks." How did he do that?
Either John alternated back and forth playing guitar and
organ while recording on a single track (pretty awkward,
and not likely), or he overdubbed the second instrument on
a second tape recorder, then mixed it down to one track.
Lewishohn does not attempt to explain how John played two
instruments on one track. Therefore, we can conclude from
this particular sentence that Lewishohn's description of
the overall recording session was written in summary form,
and lots of details were omitted, probably to keep the reader
from being bored to death.
LEWISOHN: "The song now complete, three mono remixes were done,
though none made it onto the finished album--that was remix four,
from 22 June."
SALVADOR: No comment.
[END OF ANALYSIS]
There you have it. Close analysis of Mark Lewisohn's description
of how SSSS was recorded does not contradict Paul's claim that
he did not play on it.
Salvador
===
Ordering information for Salvador Astucia's books can be found at
http://www.jfkmontreal.com/raveningwolf/
Also see Astucia's homepage:
http://www.jfkmontreal.com
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