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Reactions to argument that Chapman is innocent

by Salvador Astucia, Dec. 13, 2004

(last updated Dec. 14, 2004)

 

This article is a follow-up to a previous article which argued the innocence of Mark David Chapman, the man imprisoned for killing John Lennon. Here is the original article:


Where was Mark David Chapman standing?
http://www.jfkmontreal.com/john_lennon/scene/standing.htm

Several people in the Usenet community raised excellent points about the cited article. The following are my responses to some of their comments and questions:

 

 

Figure A: The diagram above was published in the New York Times on Dec. 10, 1980. It shows Chapman standing behind Lennon, to his right. The accompanying caption reads as follows:

 

…Mr. Lennon and Yoko Ono left their car (1), while the assailant (2) waited inside the arch. As they walked by (3), he fired. Mr. Lennon staggered up into a room (4) where he fell, fatally wounded.

 

Figure B: Rear view of John and Yoko walking out the Dakota entrance to West 72nd St. In the photo, John is approximately at the same place Chapman reportedly stood when the shots were fired on Dec. 8, 1980.

 

GRAPHICS1968: The New York Times picture (See Figure A) gives a distorted view of the scene (as usual for the news.) The entranceway is nowhere near that large. A limo can barely fit through the gates. The Times shows the opening about the length of the car.

 

SALVADOR: True, the sketch looks slightly off proportionally, but that doesn't change the positions of where the two men stood? The sketch was drawn and published less than 48 hours after the crime was committed so they didn't have much time for quality assurance. Unless a sketch like that is labeled "drawn to scale," then no one expects it to be drawn in the same exact proportion as real life. You seem to be suggesting that the diagram is completely invalid because it was not drawn to scale. If Chapman had ever been given a trial, no judge would buy such a ridiculous argument. I expect the judge would ask the artist where he/she obtained the information. In this case, it appears that the information was obtained from the NYPD because they were referenced several times as sources for various facts in the accompanying NYT article.

 

Regarding the actual width of the Dakota entrance, I went there in the spring of 2003 and  estimated the dimensions of the entire entrance which I later diagramed. The width of the entrywayasphalt onlyis about 8 feet. The left and right curbs on either side of the entryway are about 3.5 feet wide each. The total width of the entryway from wall to wall is about 15 feet. (Click here to see diagram with dimensions.) Figure B is a photo of John and Yoko walking out the Dakota entrance. John is approximately at the same place Chapman reportedly stood when the shots were fired on Dec. 8, 1980. As you can see, there was plenty of space for John to have walked away from Chapman, which would be to the left in the context of the New York Times diagram, Figure A.

 

Also, you failed to address the fact that Chapman stood on the right side of the entrance when he got Lennon's autograph several hours earlier. So that's two independent sources that show Chapman standing on the right side of the entrance. That means when Lennon walked in the entrance (after returning from the studio), Chapman was standing on the right side of Lennon. Consequently, one has to ask: how could all four bullets have entered the left side of Lennon's body if Chapman fired from the right side?

 

 

Figure C: Lennon signs autograph for Chapman, hours before shooting, Dec. 8, 1980.

 

MISTER CHARLIE: As to the famous photo of Chapman and Lennon together (Figure C) ...photos get flipped all the time. I have seen the photo of John and Chapman where their positions are reversed. You mention a second correlation showing him on Lennon's right. I don't get what this second confirmation is. Maybe the widely disseminated photo is in fact reversed. Beyond that, I do not understand your contention that because the picture shows Chapman on his right when he autographed DF for him that this has ANYthing to do with where Chapman was *hours* later when John came home from recording. That picture was NOT taken right before the crime you know.

 

 

 

SALVADOR: You're looking for "absolute proof," something I admit I cannot
provide. What I am doing is establishing reasonable doubt against the official
story that Chapman committed the crime. If the case had ever been tried, I
believe there is a good chance Chapman could have been acquitted based on the evidence I presented. Your argument about the photo being flipped is a
possibility, but that's all it is -- a remote possibility. The way Lennon parts
his hair might give us a clue, but we can't really determine that from the
picture because it looks like it's combed back somewhat, in a quasi-fifties/Elvis style...All I can say is this is a famous picture; it's on lots of websites and I've only seen "one" version, which places Lennon on the left and Chapman on the right.

Your other point is reasonable. Perhaps Chapman stood on the right side, but
moved to the left hours later. But then we're back to the second source, the
NYT sketch, which also shows Chapman on the right. Like I said, it isn't
absolute proof, it is only reasonable doubt. That's all the law requires.
 


TOM JOAD: There's several problems with your conspiracy theory or other gunman theory. First, you rely on a newspaper's account of what happened and their diagram. Newspapers and the media are notorious for getting it wrong. Second, the bullets that were taken from the body matched the weapon in forensic testing. Third, Yoko Ono and the doorman witnessed the entire scene. Fourth, Why would Chapman spend his life in prison and the rest of his life hated by the world and unable to even be in a general population prison. He is virtually isolated from any human contact less 3 or 4 of the same rotating guards.

SALVADOR: Yes newspapers do get it wrong. But we also have a photograph of Chapman standing beside Lennon, getting an autograph, a few hours before the shooting. In that picture, Chapman is standing on the right side of the entrance. That's two independent sources which corroborate one another. In both cases, Chapman is standing on the right side of the entrance to the Dakota.

Your second point about the bullets taken from John's body matching the weapon in forensic testing seems quite dubious. How would you know that, or are you merely making an assumption? Nevertheless, guns are planted all the time to ensure convictions. It ain't rocket science.

Your assertion that Yoko Ono witnessed the shooting is factually incorrect. Yoko did NOT see John get shot. She was in the lobby at the time. Virtually every account of the shooting which mentions Yoko indicates she turned around when she heard the shots, then she saw John run through the door and collapse on the lobby floor. Fenton Bresler wrote, "Yoko screamed at Jay Hastings, the front desk clerk until then quietly reading a magazine: 'John's been shot! John's been shot!'" (Bresler, p 229) If Yoko had been standing with John under the archway entrance, she would have yelled at doorman Jose Perdomo because his workstation was a gold-colored booth on the left side of the Dakota entrance. But if she was inside the lobby, she would have yelled at Jay Hastings who worked in the lobby. If she turned around and saw John run through the lobby door and collapse, that means she was in the lobby. In addition, Chapman told former People Magazine writer Jim Gaines that "Yoko was about 30 or 40 feet in front of him" when John walked past. (Gaines, People Mag., Mar. 2, 1987, "In the Shadows a Killer Waited," around p 65) That distance is consistent with Yoko being inside the lobby when the shots were fired. Doorman Jose Perdomo has never given an official eye-witness account of the crime, not that I am aware of. And I'm fairly certain he's dead now.

Your last question regarding Chapman's motivation for being in prison doesn't make any sense. He's serving the time because he confessed to a crime he probably did not commit. You obviously have a lot of faith in confessions, but we should be careful of relying too much on them. Why did five teenage boys falsely confess to raping and severely beating a female jogger in the notorious Central Park Jogger case? My point is Chapman's confession appears to be false, but it is not the first instance of false confessions; not by a long shot.
 


AARON CLAUSEN: Tell me, what does your family think of you? Do they agree? Do they just nod whenever you begin talking? I'm curious as to this bit of your psychology.

SALVADOR: My family is no different from the public at large. Most people don't like discussing things which might force them to rethink their entire value systems. It's a question of intellectual maturity. I don't talk to small children about adult issues and I don't discuss certain topics with adults who I perceive as being unprepared psychologically and intellectually to deal with it.

What this means regarding my family, is I try to avoid getting into discussions that will make family members uncomfortable. If they can handle it, I talk. Believe it or not, there are lots of people in the world who like hearing unusual opinions without passing judgment or becoming afraid. But most people I know on a personal level eventually know I don't believe the Warren Report and have definite ideas about Kennedy's assassination. If they choose to bring up the subject, they do. If so, I talk about it. If not, I keep quiet.

And I avoid getting into serious discussions with people who are not serious. I hate to say it, but that pretty much eliminates Jews. As a rule, if I learn someone is Jewish, I only make polite conversation, and try to avoid anything serious, even if they bring it up. From time to time, however, I discuss politics with Jews and I almost always get them quite frustrated. They quickly realize I know a lot more than the average Goy, and it intimidates them. I think many of them believe I'm fairly tolerant, and I am. I don't expect Jewish people to be as polite as Christians or Moslems, for example, because Jews are not trained to be polite. For example, if a Jew insults me at work, I'll let it roll off me because I know they've never been taught to treat others with respect, especially Gentiles. But if a Christian insults me, I'll get mad and respond because they should know better. Christians are to taught to treat others as they would be treated, so the bar is naturally much higher.

That's in real life. On the Internet, it doesn't matter. The point is to get new information out there for people to read. I don't have to be selective because the Internet is impersonal. People can read my website or not. They can believe it or not. That is their choice.

Most people I've met who like the Beatles don't have a problem discussing the possibility that Chapman might be innocent. I've never met anyone in real life (as opposed to on the Internet) who thinks the notion is completely crazy, although I admit I don't discuss it casually with just anyone.

A final comment, Aaron. The very nature of your question reveals something about yourself. You're very interested in what people think of you. Otherwise, why ask the question? I can understand the desire to be liked and accepted to a degree. It's a natural desire. But as we grow and mature we should care less and less about our personal popularity and more about our core values. This goes to the heart of ethics and morality. People who are "grounded" have a moral center, regardless of cultural whims. Like anyone, I want to have friends and be liked by others, but it's a matter of degree. But if I'm doing research on something like John Lennon's murder, I can't limit my research to things that will be viewed as popular by the general public. The truth is what it is, and sometimes it's unsettling. But I can't change the results of my research because I'm worried about my image.

Basically one has to develop two worlds. The intellectual world and the social world. In the social world we say what needs to be said to maintain relationships with other human beings. In the intellectual world we do as we please. This is the essence of freedom and liberty.


 

 

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