USENET Discussion Group

alt.conspiracy.jfk, alt.revisionism

Criticism of Andy Walker & John Simkin's JFK Forum

by Salvador Astucia, Feb. 13, 2005

Thread # 1: John Simkin's bogus forum where Holocaust paranoia rules

From: "Salvador Astucia" <cropduster...@cs.com>
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.revisionism
Subject: John Simkin's bogus forum where Holocaust paranoia rules
Date: 8 Feb 2005 22:02:27 -0800
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Salvador Astucia" wrote:
>> John Simkin, publicly labeled anyone who researched
>> the Holocaust with an open mind as a "Holocaust Denier"
>> and "racist."
>>
>> http://educationforum.ipbhost.com

Stan Pierce wrote:
> This attitude never existed in Britain in the 1950s.
> What you are describing is the result of a dumbing down
> of the people and that is the result of Plenty; the
> misapplication of educational funds, and the standards
> of television being dumbed down to East Ender's as the
> ultimate in 'drama'. Britain has become a nation of yobs.
> They have turned the whole nation into an asylum in two
> generations. Asylum seekers actually seek the place out.
> Simkin is just a rich yob. What else would you expect
> him to say amongst such a mob.

The real irony is I never tried to discuss the Holocaust
on Simkin's bogus forum. In fact, I publicly refused to
discuss it when asked. One of Simkin's minions saw that
I had some Revisionist information on my website and
basically picked a fight with me. They started a petition
to get me removed from the Forum. Simkin played the good
cop and his minion (Shonet Clark--a real asshole) played
the bad cop. Simkin said things like, "Even narrow minded
racists who deny the Holocaust have a right to voice their
opinions, although I've fought racism all my life."

It was a preemptive strike by the Forum to prevent open-minded
discussions about the Holocaust, but the last time I checked,
the petition thread had over 1,500 views and Forum members
are talking about Canadian Revisionist martyr, Ernst Zundel.
Obviously Simkin's plan backfired big time.

This is the first time I've ever been banned from a discussion
group for NOT discussing the Holocaust. :-)

To quote a burnt out Hebrew folk singer: the times they are
a-changing. :-)

Salvador Astucia

===
http://www.jfkmontreal.com

Andy Walker spews hate, but does not respond to any of Salvador's points.

From: a...@educationforum.co.uk (Andy Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: John Simkin's bogus forum where Holocaust paranoia rules
Date: 11 Feb 2005 08:54:59 -0800
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[snipped previous message]

We were actually very tolerant of [Salvador Astucia's*] rancid ramblings
although we did moderate his posts to remove the worst and most
blatant racist outpourings. Most of it was anti semitic babble
straight from the hospital bed.

The man is clearly quite unwell and we fear for his mental health and
well being. However we also have a duty to protect the integrity of
our forum and to protect young minds from the dangerously deluded. It
therefore became impossible to allow Salvador[...] to continue
posting on a forum for professional educators and in a place where
school children often participate.

I am confident he will find somewhere else on which to project his
obvious self loathing but rather hope instead that he seeks out the
urgent treatment he so desperately needs.

[*Note: The pseudonym "Salvador Astucia" is shown in brackets

because Andy Walker constantly addresses Salvador by another

name in an attempt to guess Salvador's real identity and reveal his

home address and phone number to the public, rather than

reply to Salvador's comments.]

Salvador announces that Andy Walk & John Simkin have finally cancelled his account with their JFK forum. He points out inconsistencies in their reasons for censorship and general harassment. He reminds people that he refused to discuss the Holocaust or Hitler, but most of his messages were not posted and ultimately his membership was revoked.

From: "Salvador Astucia" <cropduster...@cs.com>
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: John Simkin's bogus forum where Holocaust paranoia rules
Date: 12 Feb 2005 14:51:13 -0800
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[snipped previous messages]

Before I respond, Andy, I wish to state for the record
that on Feb. 10, 2005, you or John Simkin officially
cancelled my account with the Education Forum for unknown
reasons, although it's fairly obvious that you cancelled
it because I *refused* to discuss the Holocaust or
Adolf Hitler. My refusal clearly frustrated you because
it left you without a genuine pretext to boot me from
your so-called discussion forum.

On Feb. 2, 2005, you (Andy) placed my account on "moderator
supervision" for reasons that--according to you--had nothing
to do with content, an issue I will discuss shortly.
For now, I simply want to inform viewers that on Feb. 10, 2005,
you (Andy) or John Simkin cancelled my account with the
Education Forum for reasons that you have not fully
explained.

Apparently something has happened within the Education
Forum. Whatever it was, it has obviously upset you (Andy)
a great deal. Something has forced you out of your cocoon.
Something has caused you, Andy Walker--the smiling geek
in a penguin suit (see photo on website)--to go ballistic
in a Usenet discussion forum. Something has caused you to
become extremely paranoid. You appear to think the world
has turned against you, and for once, your worst fears may
be justified. So perhaps paranoia is not the correct word.
"Trapped rat" is a more accurate description of your
recent public tirade filled with asinine, juvenile remarks.

Regarding your recent chatter, Andy, you made quite an
an admission. You finally admitted the *real* reason
why you and John Simkin instated a censorship policy
against me.

Let me repeat a key statement you just made, Andy.

"we did moderate his [Salvador's] posts to remove the
worst and most blatant racist outpourings. Most of it
was anti-semitic babble straight from the hospital bed."

First, I never made *any* racists remarks on your so-called
discussion forum. I never discussed blacks, Asians or other
racial groups. If I mentioned a racial group at all, it was
only in passing, not in an accusatory or bigoted manner.
In fact, I refused on several occasions to discuss the
Holocaust or Adolf Hitler, although several attempts were
made by you and your minions to goad me into such controversial
discussions. So if I have made any racist remarks, as you
claim, please produce them or apologize for spreading
blatant lies.

Second, readers should be aware that until now, you
(Andy) have publicly claimed that the only reason you
placed my account under "moderator supervision" was
because you had noticed my messages were coming from
"5 separate IPs," and you were afraid my account was
being used my multiple people.

On Feb. 2, 2005, you (Andy) made the following public
statement on the Education Forum:

"Just for the record, I placed Salvador under moderator
supervision because over the last 4 days he has posted
from 5 separate IPs. I was concerned that the account
was being shared. This has been done to us by a right
wing group in the past. Either John or myself will
moderate his postings when we have time. I work full
time as a teacher in a school. Salvador is not really
my priority at the moment."

(Andy Walker, Feb. 2, 2005, The Education Forum ->
Assassination of JFK -> JFK Assassination Debate ->
"Nazi Race Hate on Our Forum, petition to unregister")

Now you (Andy) have switched your rationale for censoring
my messages. Your new claim is you were trying to
"protect young minds" from the "worst and most blatant
racist outpourings" and "anti-semitic babble." Neither
you or John Simkin have ever made such a claim before;
although John did pull one of my articles because he
claimed it was anti-semitic. Here is the article
John pulled:

"Critical Thought on Tsunami"

http://www.jfkmontreal.com/Indonesia/Quake.htm

I admit the article in question is hard-hitting
and controversial. It is also critical of Israel, but
being critical of Israel is different from being
anti-Jewish.

Nevertheless, John did not put me on "moderator
supervision" because of the Tsunami article.
He simply pulled the article and warned me
not to post anti-Semitic material. In response,
I said I would try to avoid discussing Israel and
Jews altogether unless those topics were directly
related to my research on JFK's murder.

Having stated that, neither John or yourself have ever
publicly admitted that the reason you placed me on
"moderator supervision" was because of the content
of my messages. You have always claimed you were
afraid I was really a team of people posting messages
from multiple computers under the account assigned
to Salvador Astucia.

So what happened to your original concern, Andy? What
happened to the 5 IP addresses argument? Have you forgotten
about that? I haven't. Of course, everyone on your bogus
forum knew the IP address argument was merely a pretext
for censoring my messages, but you were too gutless
and mendacious to give an honest explanation for imposing
a strict censorship policy on my account.

But let's get back to your latest claim, Andy, that
you were trying to "protect young minds."

That's an odd argument from someone who moderates a
forum which discusses JFK's assassination. Many have
accused people like yourself--people who question the
official explanation of JFK's assassination--of corrupting
young minds. One would think you would be defending
yourself against such charges rather than hurling similar
accusations at others. This goes to the heart of your
integrity and your legitimacy. YOU HAVE NEITHER!

Why would a genuine researcher claim he needs to "protect
young minds" from unpopular ideas? This is shear nonsense
and it reveals you for the phony you truly are.

Also, Andy, you might be interested in reading the
following article about your insipid excuse for
a serious discussion forum:

"UK educational program promotes Zionist propaganda"

http://www.jfkmontreal.com/ngfl/edforum.htm

I have posted this article to several British newsgroups
asking that British citizens contact their representatives
and demand that the British government stop funding the
"National Grid for Learning" because it allows propagandists
like you and John Simkin to push Zionist propaganda under
the guise of education.

If you truly want to "protect young minds," Andy, then save
them from yourself and your fellow Zionist propagandist, John
Simkin.

Salvador Astucia

===
Have you seen this: http://www.jfkmontreal.com

Andy Walker still does not respond to a single point raised by Salvador. Instead, Walker engages in character assassination.

From: a...@educationforum.co.uk (Andy Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: John Simkin's bogus forum where Holocaust paranoia rules
Date: 13 Feb 2005 02:05:50 -0800
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[snipped previous messages]

So far we haven't exactly been innudated by [Salvador Astucia's*]

campaign supporters. LOL

[Salvador Astucia] just put us on the growing list of people you have an
irrational hatred of and move on - soon there will only be you left!

[*Note: The pseudonym "Salvador Astucia" is shown in brackets

because Andy Walker constantly addresses Salvador by another

name in an attempt to guess Salvador's real identity and reveal his

home address and phone number to the public, rather than

reply to Salvador's comments.]

Thread # 2: John Simkin. Who funds your so-called forum?

From: "Salvador Astucia" <cropduster...@cs.com>
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.revisionism
Subject: John Simkin. Who funds your so-called forum?
Date: 12 Feb 2005 16:00:45 -0800
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On Feb 10, 2005, John Simkin wrote:
"Salvador Astucia has been removed from this Forum.
[Education Forum] Not because of his postings,
although the moderators had to edit out his racist
comments. He has been removed because he has used
his website to make libellous attacks on Forum
members. He is also urging people to complain to
the UK Department of Education in order to get the
Forum taken down (he is under the mistaken impression
that this Forum is funded by the UK government).
A tactic previously employed by the other supporter
of free speech, Bob Vernon."

END OF SIMKIN'S STATEMENT
====

Salvador Astucia replied:
John, if you don't want people to think you are funded
by the UK government, then you should remove the words
"Part of the National Grid for Learning" from the bottom
of your webpage. The National Grid for Learning is funded
by the UK's Department of Education, and if your group is
part of NGFL, as your webpage claims, how can you not
be receiving money from the UK government?

If you are not receiving money from the UK government,
then you are misrepresenting your group, apparently
creating the illusion that you are a bona fide educational
discussion forum.

So tell us, John, if you are not funded by the
UK government, who the hell funds you? ORGANIZED CRIME?

(That is a serious question!)

Please explain.

In the meantime, folks should read the truth about your
so-called discussion forum.

http://www.jfkmontreal.com/ngfl/edforum.htm

Salvador Astucia

==
http://www.jfkmontreal.com

Andy Walker denies that his forum is financed by Organized Crime. He claims he funds it himself. Walker calls Salvador a Nazi and anti-Semite.

From: a...@educationforum.co.uk (Andy Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: John Simkin. Who funds your so-called forum?
Date: 13 Feb 2005 01:54:56 -0800
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[snipped previous messages]

Not organised crime you deranged moron. I fund the Education Forum
(this is a serious answer).

[Salvador Astucia*] (...self styled anti semite and Nazi)
wouldn't know the truth if it danced naked on harpsichord in front of
him singing "Here is the truth... Here is the truth"

What a twerp

[*Note: The pseudonym "Salvador Astucia" is shown in brackets

because Andy Walker constantly addresses Salvador by another

name in an attempt to guess Salvador's real identity and reveal his

home address and phone number to the public, rather than

reply to Salvador's comments.]

Salvador asks why Andy Walker's and John Simkin's JFK Forum has a written claim that it is "part of the National Grid for Learning." Salvador suggests this is false advertising; however, it is unclear what the nature of the relationship is between the Walker's JFK Forum and the National Grid for Learning.

claimed your group was funded by the UK government.
Actually, the article never made such a claim.
This is how the article reads:

==== excerpt from NGFL article ======
Recently I registered as a member of an Internet
discussion group calling itself "The Education Forum"
which claims to be a "Forum for teachers and educators."
It also claims to be "part of the National Grid for
Learning." I have since learned that the National Grid
for Learning is a UK education program funded by the
"Department of Education and Skills."
==== end of excerpt ======

In the article, I did not specifically state that
*your group* is funded by the government. I only
stated that your group is part of the National Grid
for Learning because the forum proper has the
following words at the bottom of the webpage
where your discussion group resides:

"Part of the National Grid for Learning"

I also stated that the NGFL is funded by the UK
Department of Education, and NGFL's funding
should be cut because they allow your group
to push pro-Israel propaganda on their website.
Whether they are funding you are not, they
are lending you their name, which denotes
a degree of credibility in the eyes of
many.

Is your forum part of the NGFL or not?

If not, you should remove the words which claim
you are because it's false advertising.

If you are in fact part of the NGFL, as your
webpage claims, then the National Grid for
Learning should have its funding pulled for lending
support to a right-wing Zionist organization like
yours which openly opposes free speech in the area
of the Holocaust (a topic which I refused to discussed
several times, BTW, but was booted from your group
anyway.)

You and John Simkin are the most paranoid individuals
I have seen in quite some time. You actually ban
people for *not* discussing the Holocaust, and you
will also ban them if they do.

How pathetic.

Salvador Astucia

===
http://www.jfkmontreal.com

Another poster agrees with Salvador. Suggests having an open debate about the Holocaust where Jews and supporters of Israel are not allowed make personal attacks on people with whom they disagree.

From: s...@free.info
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: John Simkin. Who funds your so-called forum?
Message-ID: <u37v0196lp2lblko28cqg99gd0b3q16nav@4ax.com>
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>You and John Simkin are the most paranoid individuals
>I have seen in quite some time. You actually ban
>people for *not* discussing the Holocaust, and you
>will also ban them if they do.
>
>How pathetic.
>
>Salvador Astucia

They probably don't want students to see the other side of the coin.
Students at universities are questioning the holocaust as well as the
Nazi tactics used by Israel. The Jewish side is beside themselves and
are desperate to stop any view other than theirs.

It is a hot potato they don't want to handle. Can you see
revisionists going in with well reasoned questions they can't answer?
Their only response would be to chant: "hater" "anti-Semite" "Nazi"
and "denier." I bet they don't even know the proper word is
revisionist.

OTOH, it would be great to have an area where folks could discuss the
Holocaust in the spirit of good debate. Point and counterpoint
without degradation, denigration, personal insults or invectives.
Persons who engage in those tactics would not be allowed to post in
that section.

"At any given moment, there is a sort of all pervading orthodoxy,
a general tacit agreement not to discuss large and uncomfortable
facts." George Orwell

[...]

Salvador invites people to discuss the Holocaust on this thread, and he will act as moderator. Reasonable comments will be posted on Salvador's webpage (here). Personal insults will be ignored. Shalom.

From: "Salvador Astucia" <cropduster...@cs.com>
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: John Simkin. Who funds your so-called forum?
Date: 13 Feb 2005 13:53:17 -0800
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[snipped previous messages]

Having a moderated debate about the Holocaust is a good
idea since that topic is the real reason I was kicked
off of John Simkin's and Andy Walker's bogus JFK discussion
forum. I never attempted to discuss the Holocaust per se
on their forum, but I had several articles related to
Revisionism on my website. Once the Simkin-Walker crowd
realized I was open to different points of view regarding
the Holocaust, they went after me with full force.

We can try having a Holocaust discussion for awhile right
here, and I'll copy reasonable comments to my website as
time permits.

I will not, however, post nonsense and insults, which
unfortunately represents about 99.9% of the Jewish point
of view on this topic.

On the other hand, I will post any comment from a pro-Jewish,
pro-Israel perspective if it is made in a civilized,
intelligent manner. (Frankly, I don't expect many of these.)

I suggest we focus on two main points of serious debate
regarding the official Holocaust story.

Those two points are:

(1) The correctness of the official death count of six
million Jews,

(2) The use of gas chambers by Nazis to commit mass
murder against Jews and other prisoners.

A third point worthy of debate is Adolf Hitler himself.
Was he a monster, was he a good man, a bad man, a good leader,
a poor leader, and so on? To me this is an interesting
area of discussion because many Revisionists have different
opinions about Hitler, ranging from love to hate. Yet, the
Jewish perspective is all Revisionists are Holocaust Deniers
who are secretly Nazis and they all secretly love Hitler.

In fact, one of the unspoken points about the official
version of the Holocaust story is Hitler was not a
human being, he was a monster. Anyone who treats Hitler
as a human being will be viewed as a "Holocaust Denier"
by the Holocaust Thought Police. Obviously this is
complete nonsense.

Here are comments I have posted on my site already:

http://www.jfkmontreal.com/ngfl/usenet/walkeretal.htm

Feel free to join the discussion.

This should be interesting.

Salvador Astucia

===
http://www.jfkmontreal.com

Revisionists' opinions of Hitler? Educational website is presented which provides historical information about the mosted hated man of the Twentieth Century.

HOLOCAUST DEBATE

So far, no one seems interested in discussing the Holocaust
per se. Apparently it's no big deal since the Holocaust
has already been done to death at alt.revisionism.
Apparently everyone agrees: gas chambers were not used
and the death count was less than one million Jews.
Except for a handful of very loud Jews, that seems
to be the general consensus. So in a sense, a hoax was
perpetrated. But using the word "hoax" does not mean no
one was imprisoned and no one died while in prison.
It simply means the death count was severely exaggerated
and lies were spread by Jewish propagandists about the
cause of death.

If someone has a civilized comment to make which
challenges that conclusion, I'm willing to listen.
But the historical and scientific evidence is overwhelming
that the conclusion I have presented is the correct one.

Now that we've covered that area of discussion, I would
like to move to a new realm. I'm interested in getting
various revisionists' opinions about Adolf Hitler the man
and the leader. I know the gut reaction is to say Hitler
was a monster, but that seems overly simplistic,
particularly since we all know he was a living, breathing
human being.

Having stated that, here is an historical website that
will help people give more thoughtful answers about the
most hated man of the Twentieth Century.

http://www.hitler.org/

Salvador Astucia

===
http://www.jfkmontreal.com

Salvador presents an excerpt from one of Hitler's speeches which is filled with anti-colonialism rhetoric, highly critical of England and France for their world domination and brutality. Salvador observes that many Arab and non-Arab Moslems admired Hitler, during World War II, because of his anti-colonial views. In addition, Salvador cites the ousting of Iran's Shah Reza Pahlavi in 1941 as an example of the West's paranoia of Hitler which led to the present-day turmoil in Iran and the Middle East in general.

From: "Salvador Astucia" <cropduster...@cs.com>
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.revisionism,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: John Simkin. Who funds your so-called forum?
Date: 15 Feb 2005 22:16:57 -0800
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[snipped previous messages]

If anyone wishes to reply to the article below, please

do so via Usenet and I will mirror your comments
on my webpage, as long as comments are polite and
on-topic.

Salvador Astucia

=======

HITLER & EUROPEAN COLONIALISM

There is no question that Hitler had anti-Jewish
feelings; however, he was also anti-colonialism.
Some of his speeches exposed England and France
for the tyrants which they were. Hitler's anti-
colonial rhetoric was one of the reasons Hitler
was so popular with Arab and non-Arab Moslems in
the Middle East. For example, Iran's Shah Reza Pahlavi
supported Hitler, a position that led to Pahlavi's
overthrow and exile by Britain and the Soviet Union
in 1941. Pro-Hitler sentiment notwithstanding,
Pahlavi was a progressive leader, particularly in
the area of women's rights. He encouraged women to
educate themselves and he allowed them to stop wearing
traditional Islamic veils back in the 1930s. The Shah
was driven from power because of his support for
Hitler, a man he viewed as a liberator--not so
much from Zionist expansion in Israel--but from
colonial domination by England and France throughout
the Middle East.

The Shah was replaced by his young son, Mohammad
Reza Pahlavi, a much weaker leader, who was
propped up for years by the CIA and the Mossad
using a malevolent secret police, SAVAK, notorious
for its use of torture against the Iranian people.

The CIA and the Mossad overthrew Mohammad Mossadegh
when he seized power from the younger Pahlavi
in 1953. For the second time, young Pahlavi was
propped up by the West. Both times, the West drove
progressive leaders from power, first Pahlavi's
father (in 1941), later Mossadegh in 1953. In 1979,
Pahlavi was finally driven from power by religious
fanatic Ayatollah Khomeini during the Islamic
Revolution.

Could things have turned out worse for Iran had the
elder Shah Pahlavi been allowed to remain in power
in the 1940s, even though he admired Hitler?

Absolutely not.

Iran's present state of turmoil began with the
exile of Shah Reza Pahlavi simply because the
progressive Shah, who believed in women's rights,
admired Adolf Hitler, a man he viewed as his
liberator from European colonial powers.

The following is an excerpt from a 1940 speech
by Hitler which shows his views about European
colonialism.

BERLIN, RHEINMETALL-BORSIG WORKS

SPEECH OF DECEMBER 10, 1940

Excerpt:

"...Forty-six million Britishers dominate and govern
approximately 16 million square miles of the surface
of the earth. Thirty-seven million Frenchmen dominate
and govern a combined area of approximately 4 million
square miles. Forty-five million Italians possess,
taking into consideration only those territories in
any way capable of being utilized, an area of scarcely
190,000 square miles. Eighty-five million Germans
possess as their living space scarcely 232,000 square
miles. That is to say: 85 million Germans own only
232,000 square miles on which they must live their
lives and 46 million Britishers possess 16 million
square miles."

"Now, my fellow-countrymen, this world has not been so
divided up by providence or Almighty God. This
allocation has been made by man himself. The land was
parcelled out for the most part during the last 300
years, that is, during the period in which, unfortunately,
the German people were helpless and torn by internal
dissension. Split up into hundreds of small states in
consequence of the Treaty of Muenster at the end of the
Thirty Years' War, our people frittered away their entire
strength in internal strife.... While during this period
the Germans, notwithstanding their particular ability
among the people of Western Europe, dissipated their
powers in vain internal struggles, the division of the
world proceeded beyond their borders. It was not by
treaties or by binding agreements, but exclusively by
the use of force that Britain forged her gigantic Empire."

END OF EXCERPT

The full speech can be viewed at

http://www.hitler.org/speeches/12-10-40.html

Posted by Salvador Astucia

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